Accessory running lights

[james]

AMCA Judging question.
Stock 1952 Pan, Delux Solo version
If I installed a set of red running lights under my solo seat,
would I run into a problem if I had the bike judged?

I don't know if just 2 lights are acceptable or at all.
Put them on or leave them off?

Jim

[FlatHeadSix]

James,
Saddle Lamps were an accessory available from the factory and appeared in the dealer catalog, they are perfectly acceptable for judging when installed correctly using period hardware and wiring.

According to the AMCA judging handbook accessory items should not be considered when judging a bike unless they are totally incorrect. Like putting 1962 equipment on a 1952 bike.

I have saddle lamps on most of my bikes, I like the extra visibility. Just be sure to use OEM stuff when installing them, cloth covered wire in asphalt looms, flag terminals on the wire ends, connected to the proper terminals, etc. I have LED bulbs in mine; more light, lower current draw.

put 'em on, you'll be glad you did.

mike

[james]

James,
Saddle Lamps were an accessory available from the factory and appeared in the dealer catalog, they are perfectly acceptable for judging when installed correctly using period hardware and wiring.

According to the AMCA judging handbook accessory items should not be considered when judging a bike unless they are totally incorrect. Like putting 1962 equipment on a 1952 bike.

I have saddle lamps on most of my bikes, I like the extra visibility. Just be sure to use OEM stuff when installing them, cloth covered wire in asphalt looms, flag terminals on the wire ends, connected to the proper terminals, etc. I have LED bulbs in mine; more light, lower current draw.

put 'em on, you'll be glad you did.

mike

Thanks Mike
I have a set original bullet lights.
Are they wired to the terminal box behind the coil or do the wires run down the seat tee to the ing switch?

[DaveSwanson]

Here is how it is routed on the HD Museum 56 FL. Down the T bar.

On a side note. When my 56 was judged at Davenport I was docked for using friction tape on my Tbar. I will have to show them this picture.

DSCN0350.jpg (70.69 KiB) Viewed 1310 times

[NightShift]

Dear Dave,
Mucho Gracioso! But can we trust the museum? After all, tape makes too much sense.

[DaveSwanson]

Another angle. I think these photos should be good enough to get the point back, or 1/2 point, I can't remember.

DSCN0601.jpg (64.92 KiB) Viewed 1310 times

[RUBONE]

Dave,
Since the lights were an accessory and often owner or dealer mounted, the use of tape or not should not have any bearing on judging. Get your point back.
Robbie

[FlatHeadSix]

Dave,
I want to echo Shifty's Gracias!, excellent contribution, we'll add those to the gallery in the tech section.

As you probably already know the factory was quite fond of friction tape and used it liberally to secure wire looms. I have found plenty of it on every original bike I ever tore into. The MoCo used it most often in areas that were hidden, like along the frame bars under the fuel tanks. I'll bet you found some on the '56 when you pulled the tanks. Bruce Palmer mentions it in several places in his book.

It would really be neat to find an original installation instruction sheet that was packed in the accessory kit for the saddle lamps. I would almost bet that the instructions to the dealer or rider who installed them included securing the wire loom to the T-Bar with friction tape.

As Robbie said, you should not have lost any points for the tape.

mike

[james]

Thanks for everyones input.
Does anyone have a picture of the wiring setup for these underseat lights?
Diagram or directions from the kit?

Thanks, Jim

[FlatHeadSix]

James,
The only factory diagram I have handy is the one for my '47, it may not be the same, or correct, for yours. It just makes sense that the wires for the saddle lamp ran up the t-bar and hooked directly to the ignition switch. If you need to pull the pin from the pogo stick toggle and swing the seat up for battery service, or to get to the oil tank on a big twin, the wire will stay connected and just swing up with the t-bar, you don't have to disconnect anything.

So. look at the pictures that Dave posted and the diagram below. The wire runs straight up the t-bar, under the tank divider strip, and connects to the #2 terminal on the ignition switch.

mike

[FlatHeadSix]

Dave
On your '56 is there an insulated terminal on the t-bar where the wires from each of the lamps connect to the wire which runs up the t-bar? (item #39 on the diagram I just posted). I'm guessing not since yours are factory signal lamps and are wired independent of each other.

mike

[DaveSwanson]

Mike, individual insulated bullet terminals under the seat T. Just like the parts book.

DSCN0409.jpg (49.42 KiB) Viewed 1310 times

[4pans1man]

James,

As for the turn signal lamps in Dave Swanson's photo 68550-50. The factory "Instructions for installing direction signal lamps - all 74 OHV and Duo-Glide models" The only referance to using tape is under "Wire Connections"

For 1958 and earlier 74 OHV and Duo-Glide:

Remove existing YELLOW wire from terminal plate terminal No. 20. This wire comes from instrument panel through conduit. TAPE this wire terminal so that it is well insulated and leave it a loose wire.

All other wires and wire looms are secured with small or large spring clips. Per instructions.

Harley-Davidson Motor Co.
Milwaukee 1, Wis., U.S.A.

68550-50B
68550-58A
Orig.7-59 Good luck, Tony

[FlatHeadSix]

Tony,
The 68550-50 direction signal lamp kit shows 2 small wire clips (9976) and 1 large clip 9977. The 2 small ones were for securing the switch wires to the handlebars, the large one was for the frame neck to secure the wires for the front signals on the fork. There is still a big question regarding the "factory" solution for securing the wires to the seat T-bar for the lights under the seat. Dave's museum photo, and his original bike, would indicate that friction tape was the answer.

The original question in this thread is about the accessory running lights, not turn signals. The 1947 diagram I posted clearly shows that there was a common terminal on the T-bar to connect the 2 lights to a single wire which ran up the T-bar to the ignition switch. The question remains regarding how they suggested securing that wire to the T-bar. My money is on the friction tape solution, I've never seen a spring clip that had the correct contour for a T-bar. All of the wire clips are designed to clip onto round surfaces, not the flattened forged T-bar used for the seats.

mike

[james]

Tony,
The 68550-50 direction signal lamp kit shows 2 small wire clips (9976) and 1 large clip 9977. The 2 small ones were for securing the switch wires to the handlebars, the large one was for the frame neck to secure the wires for the front signals on the fork. There is still a big question regarding the "factory" solution for securing the wires to the seat T-bar for the lights under the seat. Dave's museum photo, and his original bike, would indicate that friction tape was the answer.

The original question in this thread is about the accessory running lights, not turn signals. The 1947 diagram I posted clearly shows that there was a common terminal on the T-bar to connect the 2 lights to a single wire which ran up the T-bar to the ignition switch. The question remains regarding how they suggested securing that wire to the T-bar. My money is on the friction tape solution, I've never seen a spring clip that had the correct contour for a T-bar. All of the wire clips are designed to clip onto round surfaces, not the flattened forged T-bar used for the seats.

mike

Thanks Mike
I really hate to put these lights on if everything is not correct.
Another question is how do you run the wire loom through the tee bar where it hinges to the frame? There is already a harness running through there that goes to the terminal block under the coil. I don't think another asphalt wire cover will fit through there. Or does the cover stop and only the single wire run through the hinge?
thanks for the followup.

Jim