Battery drain with lights on

[kickstartkarla]

In New Mexico, I had a guy rebuild my motor. He told me he "cleaned out" my 12-V generator for me. Thanks, but it was fine before. I was moving back to Cal a couple days after I got the bike back. But I would lose all electrics at night. So I told a shop here that it was pretty clear my problems stemmed from the "cleaning." They tested the generator and said it was fine. Long story short, little by little the voltage regulator, the dash plate, the wiring, the switch, the battery and everything else got replaced. Results varied. Sometimes I'd be okay for a few months, other times not. Eventually he decided to go ahead and replace the generator. Worked for awhile, but I kept telling him my generator dash light was on dimly. Not at slow speeds, but highway speeds. Currently, I can only ride in the daytime. As soon as I put the lights on, the generator dash light is bright, while every other light dims into obscurity.
So, this is pretty simple, huh? Wiring between the gen light, volt pak, and generator, probably. (Oh, by the way, I have a dash light that flickers on and off.) And, BTW, another shop told me it was my horn that was shorting things out, so the button switch is disconnected.
So I'm out there with my multimeters, and here's the problem. I just seem to be very inept at using a multimeter. I'm testing wires for continuity, but not exactly positive which wire goes where. I have a great simplified wiring diagram, but I think I've had too many hands helping me so it is no longer accurate. My switch has 6 poles, but I've actually only got three wires on them. No running lights or anything. Really tiny battery in wrap-around oil tank. Kickstart only. Took the wires off the poles of the generator. The farthest one, I'm assuming that's "A" and has two wires. The volt-pak has three tabs, and none marked. And the generator pole that I assume is "F" has one wire that goes to the generator dash light. The voltage regulator has three wires...an orange one, a green one and a black (ground?) one. The red wire that comes from what I think is my armature pole looks like it goes to the Mallory ignition. So I was just out there trying to read my multimeter instructions, but there seems to be a big obstruction in my head that doesn't let me process the very-simple instructions into a language I can understand and act upon. I'm just touching leads here and there, sometimes making the needle move, other times not. I know the principles of a multimeter are very simple, find the right setting for whatever you are figuring out such as current, amperage, voltage, AC, DC, etc. But I can't guarantee I understand which little icon represents which thing I'm trying to figure out. So why don't I just ask someone for help? I have been, since I've been back in Cal. It appears there are other brain-dead people existing among us. So I decided I'd just find my answer on this site: documentation, library, information, somewhere. But now I'm tired. So I'm hoping somebody can just make the troubleshooting steps abundantly clear to me. You can even drench it with sarcasm, I don't care. I just want to fix it and I know it's ridiculously easy. Thanks!

[socalrider]

sounds like you got alot going on there . you cant assume anything when it comes to electrix. you have to methodically verify that each wire is sound, goes where its supposed to and is terminated properly. where in cali are you ? im in l.a.
arnulfo

[kickstartkarla]

I'm in San diego. It's just that there are so few wires. But I don't want to unwrap them to see where they're going, cuz I might not get the shrink fit back on right, and for some unknown reason, I can't seem to crimp worth a damn. I know, I know, how hard can it be? Crimp, give a little tug to make sure it's tight, and pull the connector right off. Over and over. Duh. Maybe the generator dash light is just grounding out? That's what I'm hoping. And I was just reading an article, and doing okay with the words 'ammeter" and "voltmeter", but the next word was "field control variable resistor." Lost again.
Carla

[1964FLDUO]

I went through something like this before with a sealed 6v battery, they would work well for a month and then take a dump making me think there was a short somewhere. Turned out the batteries were trash because I went through 3 of them under warranty, until the company said the problem was on my end and couldn't give me anymore until I fixed the problem. (nobody wants to be responsible for a garbage product) Anyway I went back to the acid fill 6v from Harley and had no more problems, going on a year and I rarely put it on the battery tender. Might be a battery, I would charge mine and it would read a full charge until you hooked it up and it drained instantly.

[john HD]

carla,

first, welcome to the forum!

And the generator pole that I assume is "F" has one wire that goes to the generator dash light.

if this is true it is most likely your problem. i can safely say without even looking at your bike you will not find that on any wiring diagram here or elsewhere!

take some photos if you can and post them. that is the best way for us to see what you got going on.

john

[kickstartkarla]

Well, '64, I've been going through the batteries. After never having problems with the little bitty ones, I decided to find a bigger one that would still fit in the oil tank. That worked for a few months. Then I even went hog wild and bought a $160 Oddessey. Also worked a few months. I'm back to the little bitty now, but keeping a Battery Tender on it. Obviously my problem (and those who have tried to help me) is the lack of an ability to diagnose properly. Just switch out parts and see if it helps. I now own 2 generators, 3 voltage regulators, and a handful of switches....and I really don't know if they were working when taken off. I just have a feeling a multimeter is the answer. I have several, but they confuse me. Option 1: Get one more, but force the RadioShack guy to give me a complete tutorial on Ohm's law and multimeters, or 2: I just remembered someone who can be bribed with Hiram Walker.
And, John, pics are a good idea...tomorrow. I found several articles on here that may apply to my situation, so I printed them out to read more thoroughly tomorrow. However, my printer decided this was the best night ever to jam every other paper, so it's been a long ordeal. I'll be sound asleep in five minutes.
Yes, I would realy love it if someone would sell me something marked "A" or "F" or "B" or whatever...a little guidance never hurts. And I'd love to get a part that included instructions, instead of assuming everyone knows how to do that. Even the ones written with Chinese-to-English software translaters...so they make absolutely no sense. "The Controller light from red become to Orange. The controller light from Orange become to red mean charge work finish. USB charging wire will be turn off light." HUH?
Thanks, everybody, for your input...it really helps. Maybe I'll just wake up with confidence tomorrow. If not, I'll be taking photos..........Carla

[1964FLDUO]

It has to be a short somewhere, either a connector or a wire is grounding out prematurely. A shop manual will help although the wiring diagrams can be confusing to some folks.

[steve_wood]

Carla:

So if I'm understanding this right, the drain happens when you have the headlight on. Right?

- Any chance that you installed a new headlight? If you did, maybe it is the wrong wattage?

- If it isn't a new one, perhaps it's damaged?

- Maybe there is a short in the headlight circuit (under the cowl)?

Let us know.

[Hauula Pan]

A couple of tips that might be of help, When checking for continuity you need to have the wires disconnected because you can get false readings of continuity if you're getting feedback through a component. To truly check a wire it can't be hooked to anything. When checking for shorts to ground the same is true. You began by saying you had the engine rebuilt & the guy cleaned the generator. Big question here is when the engine was put back in how well is it & everything else grounded? The simple wiring diagram isn't of much use if your wiring isn't the same. You need to make a diagram of your wiring - if you don't want to unwrap everything you can disconnect everything - noting what each wire is connected to as you unhook it & then check each wire individually and note where each goes. Yes its very time consuming & it may be quicker & easier to just go ahead & unwrap the stuff. You need to have a known to be good battery & regulator - when in doubt change them, you can spend a lot of time chasing phantoms only to find you had a faulty battery or regulator. A common place to find problems is your terminal strips. Make sure they are insulated and none of the posts is leaking to ground. Finally make sure the gen. & reg. were flashed/polarized properly. Final thought is its also possible to have a wire that is partially broken with only a strand or two left, it will read continuity on a multimeter but won't carry a load, so make sure the wires and terminal ends are all good. Best of luck.

[Bosheff]

Are your electrical components quality pieces? Stay away from Accell. Most but not all aftermarket electrical components are not worth the effort it takes to install them. Don't be afraid to cut open harnesses to do visual inspections. If you don't isolate each component and each circuit yer just wastin yer time. The problem is there somewhere. Engine must be grounded to the frame. Did you paint the frame where the engine mounts to it while the engine was being rebuilt? Vibration may play into this somehow....bosheff

[nmaineron]

My experience has been that if your genny tests well it is usually the regulator.the first thing you should do is polarize your system so current flows right.You take a piece of wire and "flash" your system by touching the battery terminal on your regulator to the generator terminal on the regulator with the ignition on.Testing your regulator can be involved and best left to a pro in your case.

With your multi meter the most you will be using it for is continuity and voltage.Check you system output by connecting your meter to the battery,red on positive and black on negative.Make sure your plugs on your meter reflect this.I like to connect a clip on the negative wire so you can leave it connected and have one hand free.You want DC volts here, the meter may have some signage that will look like volts DC---(straight line) and in the range for 6volts.With your bike running your meter should read 6.8 - 7.2 volts DC with a good RPM,around 2000,too much on either side is trouble.

Play with you meter,check you system by grounding on the frame in places and checking things like the plate that your switch is mounted on.Any reading would indicate that power is going into the plate and not through the wires.

You shouldn't do much with amps unless you know just how much each light or component will draw when hot.To do these types of readings you have to make your meter part of the circuit,you don't go positive to negative in amps.a simple example would be to disconnect an end of a wire going to a light and connect your red meter wire to the connection that you just disconnected and connect the unconnected wire to the black wire on your meter.You have just made your meter part of the circuit,a tail light might read .3 amps for instance.If you knew that the light would draw .3 amps and you got a 5 amp reading it would mean that something in that wire is grounded and drawing current.I hope you can understand all this cause it really pays to learn how to do this stuff if you plan on doing your own wrenching

I doubt that you have any dead shorts,meaning you are going directly to ground,but you may have a short in a switch or component somewhere and that is just a search and destroy job.you don't mention that you come out to a dead bike but that you lose your system over time so that would more or less mean that if you have a short it is while the system is hot,key on and running.Places to look are under your rear fender where the tire could be rubbing on your wires or in the terminal block behind the coil and the cluster around the ignition switch and the cluster in your head light.Electric issues suck,Good Luck.

[Bigincher]

I say K.I.S.S.

If there was no problem before the generator was messed with, that's where I'd go back and look first.

Just sayin'....

[kickstartkarla]

Okay, John, I took some pics. Indeed, I was waaaay wrong about which wire went where. Probably in the dark with a flashlight between your teeth isn't the best time to figure it out. '64-I'm pretty sure it is just a short, but the Pan manual doesn't really always apply, as my bike can best be described as a '49 through 2012. Steve, haven't had problems with the headlight, and I don't rally think that's it. because the generator light comes on all the time on the dash. But, you're right, the battery only drains with the lights on. I did change my whole taillight set-up...from LED back to regular, but that's not when this started. It did start in NM when that guy messed with my generator, but, well, I've had two different generators since then. I guess it's been a series of electrical problems with different symptoms and solutions. I think there was a point where the battery was draining without the lights on. But the current situation is only when the lights are on. So I just put everything back like it was, because I was going to follow the sequence of troubleshooting steps I found on this site. Like test voltage of battery with switch off, test again with switch and lights on, and again with engine running. And everybody says to check wiring first. Then I read from Hauula Pan that I have to test with the wires removed? Are you serious? Oh, no! I just had in mind like disconnecting the battery and touch one terminal to the wire at switch and other to where it ends up. What you say makes sense but it sure puts a damper on things for me. I think I'm going to try one of these old voltage regulators I have lying around...that would be easier. Or follow this instruction sheet that I believe I can understand and save continuity testing for last. I actually did pay someone to rewire the entire bike, but when I picked it up, I couldn't help but notice some old wires. I forget his answer when I asked exactly which wires he had replaced, but it might as well have been, "Only the ones that were really easy to get to." Thanks to everybody for all the input. Really nice of you to take the time to assist. I wish I still had that really good multimeter with the clear instructions. I probably shouldn't have run it through the dishwasher. Just kidding. (It was the washing machine.) No, really, it just evaporated, like some things do.... I've got some cheaper ones that should be just fine for simple checks, especially with the advice on where to plug the leads in. Thanks

[socalrider]

Get some quality crimpers like stak ons.the cheap one from autozone are worthless. Hauula pan is 100% correct about disconnecting everything when you do a continuity test.if you dont, your just wasting your time and possibly making matters worse .without seeing the bike in person, i would say focus on the light circuit being the problems occur when you turn them on.sounds like you got burned on the rewire job. That sucks. Wish you were closer to l.a. I would be glad to help you.
Suerte
Arnulfo

[kickstartkarla]

Ummmmm, i did alot of the multimeter tests...and discovered the battery was draining even without the lights. Put everything back together,polarized, etc. Didn't get around to regulator test. Decided to ride the next day anyway. Planned to get home before dark. but when I went to kick it, all dash lights went out. Circuit breaker would turn them back on, but just barely. Towed it to friend's house and left on charger all night. Took full charge. But when I backed it out of the garage, switch off, I smoked the battery..literally. So, nothing left but wiring short, right? Should I start with those attached to circuit breaker? Or does it matter? I don't have any terminal boards, BTW. The maintance-free battery cover had slightly lifted. So, I'm off to get a battery and circuit breaker, but wondering if theres a logical sequence to which wires to replace first.