Fuel Shut Off Valve
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Fuel Shut Off Valve
The fuel shut off valve on my 1964 FL gas tank does not shut the fuel off completely. The rod turns and screws in easily and tightens down. I did take it apart to paint the tanks. I do not have the alignment tool. Don't know if that would help or not. It is not "pouring" out. More like "seeping". Questions? Suggestions?
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
I can help you on this one My shut off rod works perfectly after lapping it in. I am pasting my post From another site...
Hi Gang,
I thought I would post this in hopes that it helps someone down the road...
I have been ironing out the bugs on my 56 (see Fire in the Hole) and had to address a very slow leaking fuel shut-off (old original one). I read some posts where people went with a PEEK tip on the rod itself, some lapped the seat in with cigarette ash paste, and one where they used a baking soda paste.
Before trying anything, with the rod and seat removed and cleaned, I screwed the rod into the seat and sucked on the end where the gas line attaches (sounds bad but remember I cleaned it!). I could hear a very faint sound of air passing around the seat. I started out using toothpaste to lap (hey its got baking soda in it) and quickly learned that I made it worse - a lot worse, in fact enough air rushed by that I am sure I turned a weeper into a leaker.
I then went out and bought some baking soda and lapped the rod/seat (screw/unscrew a zillion times) but could only get it to seal if I screwed the rod in real tight.
Today I followed the advice of another poster and desoldered the small threaded section from the rod. The rod under the threaded piece is a straight knurl and then it is soldered. With a propane torch and light tap I was able to move the threaded piece out of the way.
I then used water based valve grinding compound and a full clockwise/counterclockwise motion to lap the rod and seat. It took a while but I was able to get a seal you cannot suck air through. I then lapped with baking soda for good measure.
Moving the threaded section back is no big deal and an easy solder to ensure it stays put.
Joe
Hi Gang,
I thought I would post this in hopes that it helps someone down the road...
I have been ironing out the bugs on my 56 (see Fire in the Hole) and had to address a very slow leaking fuel shut-off (old original one). I read some posts where people went with a PEEK tip on the rod itself, some lapped the seat in with cigarette ash paste, and one where they used a baking soda paste.
Before trying anything, with the rod and seat removed and cleaned, I screwed the rod into the seat and sucked on the end where the gas line attaches (sounds bad but remember I cleaned it!). I could hear a very faint sound of air passing around the seat. I started out using toothpaste to lap (hey its got baking soda in it) and quickly learned that I made it worse - a lot worse, in fact enough air rushed by that I am sure I turned a weeper into a leaker.
I then went out and bought some baking soda and lapped the rod/seat (screw/unscrew a zillion times) but could only get it to seal if I screwed the rod in real tight.
Today I followed the advice of another poster and desoldered the small threaded section from the rod. The rod under the threaded piece is a straight knurl and then it is soldered. With a propane torch and light tap I was able to move the threaded piece out of the way.
I then used water based valve grinding compound and a full clockwise/counterclockwise motion to lap the rod and seat. It took a while but I was able to get a seal you cannot suck air through. I then lapped with baking soda for good measure.
Moving the threaded section back is no big deal and an easy solder to ensure it stays put.
Joe
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
This method is not recommended, BUT, I was about to install a new Pingle with an adaptor, but just for the heck of it, I chucked up the rod in a hand held electric drill, packed a v block with some fine valve grinding paste and polished the tip, put the seat in a vise, put some compound in, and repeated the drill mambo. Success! I still have the Pingle if and when this job fails. It was quick and easy but the true test of science is if it can be duplicated. Let me know if you try it, how you make out.
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
Mine developed a very slight leak, and I fixed it by replacing the stock rod tip with one made of PEEK.
If your rod does not bind when unscrewing or pulling it up, you probably don't need alignment.
If your rod does not bind when unscrewing or pulling it up, you probably don't need alignment.
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
And after replacing one with PEEK, I figured it was much easier, and a lot cheaper, to just re-cut the original tip.
The search function should bring this topic back up easily.
....Cotten
The search function should bring this topic back up easily.
....Cotten
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
Well, there is no doubt the original way works.
I think it is kind of a poor design, though, as the metal seat and the metal tip must contact each other exactly right in order to seal. This means that the seat must be concentric with the threads in the valve body, and the tip must be concentric with the threads on the rod. In addition, the seat and the tip must be cut so that they have the proper contact to make a seal.
I figured $10 worth of PEEK would give me a tip that could flex slightly, if all else wasn't perfect.
I think it is kind of a poor design, though, as the metal seat and the metal tip must contact each other exactly right in order to seal. This means that the seat must be concentric with the threads in the valve body, and the tip must be concentric with the threads on the rod. In addition, the seat and the tip must be cut so that they have the proper contact to make a seal.
I figured $10 worth of PEEK would give me a tip that could flex slightly, if all else wasn't perfect.
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
Andy!
The original design works, but only for a few decades.
Then the tip of the rod can become quite worn.
Fortunately, the brass seat does not suffer as badly, as a fresh rod tip does the trick.
There is a real possibility that PEEK may prove to have a better wear performance than the original metal, and since I have an ever-growing stash of PEEK scraps, nothing would please me more.
However, it may be decades before a simple re-cut original, or a PEEK replacement, wears out again, and we hear about it.
....Cotten
The original design works, but only for a few decades.
Then the tip of the rod can become quite worn.
Fortunately, the brass seat does not suffer as badly, as a fresh rod tip does the trick.
There is a real possibility that PEEK may prove to have a better wear performance than the original metal, and since I have an ever-growing stash of PEEK scraps, nothing would please me more.
However, it may be decades before a simple re-cut original, or a PEEK replacement, wears out again, and we hear about it.
....Cotten
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
We make the PEEK tipped shutoff assy. It is the complete assy. from top to bottom with the rubber seal, rod, seat and all the hardware brand new and it will not to leak. We make them for 45s and big twins with the tapered seat for 1940-1949 and with the compression seat for 1950-1965. We have sold hundreds and have not heard any complaints or comebacks. They are $100 each plus $15 shipping in the U.S.A. Send us a check or money order and we will send one out, we prefer not to use paypal or credit cards as they are blood sucking useless leaches, but if you insist we must charge 10% extra. Make sure and state year, make, and model, plus return address.
Carl Olsen
carlscyclesupply.com
Carl Olsen
carlscyclesupply.com
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
I have one of Carl's fuel shut off assemblies.
Nice complete unit with everything you need.
After 30 some years of gas smell in the garage and
random fuel running over the carb it's finally cured.
Jim
Nice complete unit with everything you need.
After 30 some years of gas smell in the garage and
random fuel running over the carb it's finally cured.
Jim
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
Was alignment necessary?james wrote:I have one of Carl's fuel shut off assemblies.
Nice complete unit with everything you need.
After 30 some years of gas smell in the garage and
random fuel running over the carb it's finally cured.
Jim
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
Andy and I did the alignment while he borrowed the tool.
I then used my original tank shut off but it still leaked slightly.
If you really cranked down it would lessen. Never 100 %.
So I was talking to Carl at Oley and he said he had new fuel
shut off's ready to go so I bought one. Really nice parts.
You don't have to tighten down, you just close it and it works.
Some new stuff to fix old stuff works, not everything.
I try to not to do many modern upgrades unless absolutely necessary.
Peek gas tank shut off (Carls) and peek plumbers nut seals are a good idea.
Jim
I then used my original tank shut off but it still leaked slightly.
If you really cranked down it would lessen. Never 100 %.
So I was talking to Carl at Oley and he said he had new fuel
shut off's ready to go so I bought one. Really nice parts.
You don't have to tighten down, you just close it and it works.
Some new stuff to fix old stuff works, not everything.
I try to not to do many modern upgrades unless absolutely necessary.
Peek gas tank shut off (Carls) and peek plumbers nut seals are a good idea.
Jim
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
I was wondering about that, Jim. i didn't remember seeing the PEEK when we aligned it.
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Re: Fuel Shut Off Valve
Andy, as you remember, alignment was necessary and I think it is critical.
Alignment and proper seat is imperative, so why not go the extra mile and update the valve seat to one that works. Since everyone has a remedy with de-soldering the splined threads then lapping the rod seat with what ever they think works, and I understand everything you are trying to accomplish because I have tried. The Peek rod end works.
If it stops working and digests with fuels I'll let you know.
Jim
Alignment and proper seat is imperative, so why not go the extra mile and update the valve seat to one that works. Since everyone has a remedy with de-soldering the splined threads then lapping the rod seat with what ever they think works, and I understand everything you are trying to accomplish because I have tried. The Peek rod end works.
If it stops working and digests with fuels I'll let you know.
Jim