rear brake 1958

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jerryd
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rear brake 1958

#1

Post by jerryd »

Hello again. Please help me sort out the rear brake on this 58 harley. As has been pointed out it has other year parts. When I got it there was no shoes in the drum. A new set was in a box of parts so I assembled the back plate and put the rear together. As the bolts tightened the wheel the drum pulled back from the back plate about 3/16. You can see the edge of the shoe.
IMG_20150504_160235.jpg
Here are the other parts
IMG_20150504_155948.jpg
IMG_20150504_162608.jpg
IMG_20150504_162714.jpg
IMG_20150504_165242.jpg
IMG_20150504_163815.jpg
IMG_20150504_164442.jpg
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58flh
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Re: rear brake 1958

#2

Post by 58flh »

Jerry--for some reason I have 1& a half pics.--I see the first one with the gap & the other i see a half of an axle!---If the axle is not the correct one you will be having to add to the spacer/thats what happens when mixing-up parts--I know the job came to you & I have been there a few times myself.The Axle for a 58 I believe has a shoulder for the loc-tab.I just checked your pics again & I have 2 spinning circles that say loading,Def. on my side She been acting up.Also if the shoes fit well in the drum & you tighten-up & they spread /thats leading me to another spacer/or the axle is wrong.Im sure Rubone or someone will chime in & solve it---Richie
jerryd
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Re: rear brake 1958

#3

Post by jerryd »

well no comments yet. My own research says the backing plate, axle sleeve and drum are 63-65. I think the axle bolt and spacer are OK for the 58 . What I am not sure of is the swing arm. I find some difference of opinion on years of swing arm . I think it is a 58. What would you say from the photos?
brake1.jpg
brake2.jpg
brake3.jpg
brake4.jpg
brake5.jpg
Is it possible to use the 63-65 drum/backing plate and if so what would I have to do to ? Or is getting the 58-62 setup the best option ? thanks for your help jerry
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58flh
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Re: rear brake 1958

#4

Post by 58flh »

Jerry-----I dug out my axle---This is what I have---The Large spacer is 1-7/8s////--The Axle Measured as yours is-(shoulder to end of thread 10-7/8s)--Over all from out to outside is-(11-1/2-inches)--Theres the other spacer that measures -(3/8s).Maybe this will help/it came off a 58.Im sorry I cannot post pics.-(yet)/Working on it.All measurements were taken using a square!---Respectfully---Richie
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Re: rear brake 1958

#5

Post by jed »

You have a 1963-66 brake drum and shoes, with the correct left axle sleeve for a star hub wheel, as the shoes measure 1 3/4" for those years. The '58-'62 shoes measure 1 1/4" wide.
From your pics, it seems you may have all the correct parts to work; the axle with the step near the hex head, right side spacer (it should have a step inside to fit on the axle step), and the threaded left axle sleeve that goes through the backing plate, etc......
I believe the problem may be the spacers on the left (brake) side. There are two spacers that fit on the threaded axle sleeve. One goes between the backing plate and the swingarm, and one goes between the outside of the swingarm and the 1 3/8" axle sleeve hex nut. The thicker spacer measures 1/2" thick overall. It should be chamfered on both sides (if OEM) so 1/2" thick overall. This one should go on the INSIDE, between the backing plate and the swingarm. The other spacer measures 5/16" wide and it should go on the OUTSIDE between the swingarm and the nut. (This is the one that the adjuster screw bears against) It's hard to tell from your pic if you have them in the correct position or if you indeed have spacers of the two correct widths, but this is the way they should go. This may account for the gap you're experiencing. If you have a parts lists catalog with the exploded diagram you will see the different widths and their correct position.
I am not 100% sure but almost certain that the distances between the axle plates of all round swing arms from 1958 to 1972 were the same width. ([edit]Looking in a 1959-65 manual the distance given is between 9.12" - 9.18" tolerance). The only things that changed were the spacings between the axle plates to account for the different drums and (hubs in '67 to '72) that changed between those years. I wouldn't worry about having the correct swingarm. It will work with what you've got.

Hope this helps.
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Re: rear brake 1958

#6

Post by jerryd »

Thanks Jed, The spacer is oem at 1/2 inch with rounded edge and in the right place. What width is the 63-65 spacer? If I add the wider spacer between plate and drum I will have to add a spacer also to the brake stay bolt an amount equal to the extra width of the one between plate and drum. I would hope there is enough thread in both places left. I will get more pictures on. I have a 58-62 brake plate from the box ,slightly bent. I mounted it with all the existing parts including drum and all bolts up . Plate sits inside the drum(no shoes on yet) and wheel rolls easy. Would this work with the narrow shoes on? jerry
jed
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Re: rear brake 1958

#7

Post by jed »

This is from Bruce Palmers book. You need a copy if you don't have it. I would not try to use the 58-62 backing plate and shoes with the wider drum. And the correct inside spacer between the backing plate and swingarm is much wider on the earlier years...as seen in the pic... Maybe 1"? I don't know. (that is, with the correct narrower drum)...
What you need to have are all the correct parts for whatever years brake/hub configuration you are going to be using.
For instance, I have a 58-64 swingarm frame; and use a 67-72 hub with a 63-72 backing plate, shoes, and drum. The spacing hardware I have is in the top row of this pic.
Yours would be in the second row from the top..... If you have all the correct components for the -66 star hub, and 63 up brake...which you seem to have, you should be good to go...at this point I honestly don't know what the problem could be.
i5SYFnQ.jpg
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jerryd
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Re: rear brake 1958

#8

Post by jerryd »

Thanks Jed, The spacer is oem at 1/2 inch with rounded edge and in the right place. What width is the 63-65 spacer? If I add the wider spacer between plate and drum I will have to add a spacer also to the brake stay bolt an amount equal to the extra width of the one between plate and drum. I would hope there is enough thread in both places left. I will get more pictures on. I have a 58-62 brake plate from the box ,slightly bent. I mounted it with all the existing parts including drum and all bolts up . Plate sits inside the drum(no shoes on yet) and wheel rolls easy. Would this work with the narrow shoes on? jerry
brake1.jpg
brake2.jpg
brake3.jpg
brake4.jpg
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jerryd
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Re: rear brake 1958

#9

Post by jerryd »

Jed just saw your last post. So swing arm , Spacers and axle sleeve and wheel are correct , then it must be the drum. It is deep enough for the wider shoe but pulls away as I tighten up the wheel nuts. So what drum do I have . There are no cast marks on it. I see some pictures in advertising but not sure of the identifying features of each. thanks for the page from Palmers . For now I only need the rest from the Panhead section :lol: jerry
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Re: rear brake 1958

#10

Post by Andygears »

I'm no expert but I just fit up a 63-66 hyd. Brake into my '54 rigid frame. You cannot run the 58 backing plate with the later drum because the later backing plate is dished outward which with the correct spacer between wheel and backing plate sets the shoes at the correct place in the drum. If you run the combination you have, the chain will not align.

If I'm wrong, I apologize but I just played with my not-stock combo with a lot of extra parts and that's the short of what I found.

I will describe what I did for my rigid in a separate post to follow to not confuse your problem.
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Fitting a hydraulic rear brake on a rigid.

#11

Post by Andygears »

Description: I have a 54 straight leg rigid and semi complete 63-66 hyd drum, backing plate and 1 & 3/4 shoe setup. My frame was squished inward from the wrong spacer on th Right side and the wrong drum to backing spacer and wrong other stuff. I'm a swap meet vendor so I acquired, 2 other brake to drum spacers and a 58-62 backing/ shoes & drum and some large hole spacers (like the one the chain adjuster hits)

To start I jacked out the frame BACK to the correct width. I then used the mechanical brake spacer (backer to wheel not drum) bolted my brake drum to the wheel and fit the spacer to the wheel first, tight fit in the star hub middle sleeve. Then slid the backing plate/ shoe setup into the drum off the bike. Brake spacer too wide! Gap at drum/ backing edge, measure, cut width down of middle portion in lathe, refit, repeat.

Ok, satisfied with fit of backer to drum wheel combo. Put assembly into frame, put trans with sprocket into frame check chain alignment, OFF! Find widest spacer, put between frame and backer, OFf!, measure, put spacer in lathe, narrow, repeat. Ok with the large spacer in and the large nut tight, and an axle slid through with no right side spacer, pulling the drum wheel combo toward the backer, 1) the shoes are in the drum right, and 2)the chain aligns with the trans.

Now measure with too short right side spacer and washers to determine width, got it, make right side spacer. I made mine from an unusable brake to backer spacer ( chrome buildup wouldn't allow to go thru backer) on lathe, cut threads off one end and faced off large end so I ended up with a right side spacer that has small dia. To meet star hub and large dia to seat against inside of frame, large end had to be bored slightly to clear flat on big end of axle, about a 1/4 inch deep.

Now the large stay stud needs to be fit to a proper bracket on the frame so that when tight it does not move the backer out of true.

Maybe there's an easier way but I feel I followed good mechanical practice when I couldn't go pick out part numbers for a "stock" combo
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