50 & 77 - Pictures added 6-4

[Windowman]

I have been riding for about 36 years but new to Harleys but have wanted one for years. I met this lady while doing a job and she has 2 older Harleys, I am going back to take a look at them as I was running a bit late. One of them is a 77 looks like an Electra Glide the other is a 50 panhead and both looked in really good shape. I asked about the numbers and she said they did match and her late husband made sure of that when he got them since he did have a dirt bike years ago impounded for it not matching.
I understand the 50 did not have a number on the frame and they use the engine number. I have read about the numbers on the bottom of the motor, what are theses for and what should I look for when inspecting these bikes? She is letting them go for a low price so I wanted to find out if they might be worth getting, about 10k for both.
When I go back there I will get some pictures of them and post them up along with the vin # how would I be able to tell if they are stock and what not?
She is in no hurry to sell them and said she would not do anything till I let her know if I want them or not.

[john HD]

windowman,

first, welcome to the forum! it sounds like you may have lucked into a good find!

all of our past posts/topics are in a searchable database. if you enter "numbers" into the search engine at the top right of every page it will return about 45 pages of posts. on the top of each of the entries you will find the link to the parent thread containing all of the information.

please do post photos! if you have any difficulty please contact any of the staff we can guide you through the process.

also one of our members runs a site called vintage american motorcycles with very good examples of vin and assembly line belly numbers. here is a link http://www.vintageamericanmotorcycles.com/v/Numbers/ on this page he has a good example of a set of '50 numbers.

feel free to ask questions, and again welcome to the forum!


john

[Speeding Big Twin]

John, I have a few questions regarding the 1950 numbers on that web site so I've posted the photos below:

1. Even though the first photo is blurry I can see signs of a serif at the top of both 1s in the serial number and that's fine. However, I can't see any sign of a serif at the top of the 3 or at the bottom of the 2. Is it just the photo? Your thoughts?
2. The sequential portion of the serial number is a lot higher than the sequential portion of the belly numbers. I've seen other examples of this and also examples where the belly numbers are a lot higher than the serial number and I assume the latter occurred when replacement cases were used? Is that correct? And if so, what's the explanation when the serial number is a lot higher than the belly numbers? Eric

[john HD]

eric,

good points on the sequence and the style of numbers. i do not know for certain if those numbers go with each other. perhaps they are from different cases, the quality of the photos are different. the title of the photos would suggest they are.

one would suspect that the belly numbers should be "close" in number to the serial, however as you pointed out anything is possible. i cannot back this up with fact but it seems to me i have seen more bikes with 5 digit serial numbers in the 48-50 era than any other range of years. post war boom perhaps?

the reason i suggested windowman check chris' website was to show an example of a set of 50ish numbers so he would have an idea of what to look for. good or suspect would be ultimately up to the buyer. unfortunately chris' site had been heavily spammed in the comment section of each photo, he had to delete all of the comments on each photo along with the spam. there were some good comments regarding the originallity of each photo, unfortunately that has been lost.

did i mention i hate hackers, virus authors, spammers AND people who host malware on other folks sites?

so let's wait for windowman's reply and hopefully some photos and we can compare them to chris' example.

john

[Cotten]

Eric!

You are correct, the 50FL11328 VIN is bogus for the all the red flags you pointed out, plus it is too neat.

....Cotten

[john HD]

eric and cotten,

ya know the more i look at that example i do not think the stamps are even the right size.

perhaps chris will see this and comment, too bad the spammers gummed up his site.

john

[Windowman]

I have not been able to get over and see her this last week, she was out of town
on business but when I spoke to her she is due back today and said this coming
week would be fine to stop by. I had a family emergency the day I was to meet
her then she had a business trip for a week.
As for the pictures of the numbers above I would say they do not belong together
look and the size and shape they do not match.
Once I get photos I will post them.

[Speeding Big Twin]

John, yes the titles of the two photos do indeed suggest they go together. And I agree about the 1948--1950 era with the five character serials as I have several in the collection. As for the size of the stamps used in that 1950 serial number it's hard to say from the photo. And apart from the characters I mentioned previously I'd also like to see a clearer shot of the 5.

Regarding proximity of the sequential portions of H-D numbers, in the Knucklehead section of Classic Harley Big Twins Greg Field states: '... line-bore numbers and serial numbers seldom differ by more than 100 or so.' However, at this stage my examples of authentic numbers don't support that conclusion.

In Palmer's first chapter he states the sequential portions of the serial and belly numbers should not match each other but I don't see any mention re the closeness of the numbers on original cases.

Windowman, although that 1950 serial number appears to be non-authentic it is normal for the style of some characters in some serial numbers to be different at times to those that appear in corresponding belly numbers. And sometimes it is also normal for two different styles of the one character to appear in the one serial number or in the one belly number. Eric

[panz4ever]

Tf you go to www.vintageamericanmotorcycles.com the same exact case numbers and belly numbers appear under 1950 pics (go to the subsection 'case numbers' and scroll down to 1950).

[Windowman]

The lady emailed me some pictures she took.
Let me know what you think.

50 Panhead Harley

50-1.jpg (50.59 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-2.jpg (93.7 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-3.jpg (98.6 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-4.jpg (82.03 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-5.jpg (122.15 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-6.jpg (111.74 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-7.jpg (101.68 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

]

50-8.jpg (116.67 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-9.jpg (116.33 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

50-10.jpg (84.36 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

77 FLH Harley

77-1.jpg (120.56 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

77-2.jpg (112.71 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

77-3.jpg (97.04 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

77-4.jpg (114.79 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

77-5.jpg (95.41 KiB) Viewed 1084 times

[RUBONE]

Windowman,
Looking pretty good! The '50 is obviously built up of many different years and lots of aftermarket parts. but it looks good and the fuzzy engine number pic looks good. Probably a fun ride for around town but not a good restoration candidate without spending a ton on it. The '77 looks like a very stock original example in decent shape. Other than the pipes, seat, and carb it is a nice '77. And the seat is just Superglide anyway. If you can get them both for what you guessed I say jump on it.
Robbie

[59Panman]

Windowman,

Are you and the bike located in the SF Bay Area? I noticed the sticker on the oil bag "Support Oakland"

I am in Castro Valley.

[lockdoc]

I'm drooling. Neither are complete originals but close. 10K for both would be a steal in my book.

[panz4ever]

windowman, are you sure about the shovel being a 77? Tanks are 76 anniversary model. Looks like the front fender under the dust may be the 'black pearl that was also used on the 76 anniversary models. At any rate, I would not hesitate to jump on them at the price she is offering you. Good luck on the purchase and nice find.

[VPH-D]

The 50 is a parts bike with many after-market pieces. The cases are not 50, but much later.
The 77 looks pretty stock for it's age.
VPH-D