Minor front fork issues

45 springer in bt frame with conversion kit

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Sarre
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Minor front fork issues

#1

Post by Sarre »

So after 1100 miles I installed a steering damper, I collected the parts over 1,5 year and got some fresh parts to finish it. Now got some questions..

I'm pretty sure I got all the parts I needed for the damper, and it all made sense; just one part didn't make any sense and that was the spring washer; should it be on top or on the bottom?

While installing the steering damper I remembered something from building the bike earlier, the lower race centering ring was not installed on this springer and since I found out that there was too little stem threads left on top after assembly I left it out and didn't think about it anymore. That means that the lower race is in contact with the fork. I think this has to do with that conversion kit. How bad is that in the long run? :?
Sarre wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:52 am
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After removing the top clamp plate (custom) I discovered that the upper head cone/crown was a bit lose, so I tightened it, and testing the fall away of the fork. The moment I was happy about it I installed the steering damper.

It took me some tries to get it right, and discovering that after a test ride the settings were wrong again; starting over.
In the end I found out that the upper head cone/crown moves under the plate (clock wise) and that the top stem nut for the damper also changes; hence the lever rotates (counter clockwise).

I'm not using a lock-plate, that probably explains why the upper head cone/crown moves, does that solely explain what is going on or does the damper also play a role in this and should I remove the damper while I got the custom top clamp plate on?

After my last testride today the upper head cone/crown just moved slightly and the top stem nut for the damper moved a bit more. Probably going to check tomorrow if it moves further after another testride.

I'll update with some pics tomorrow. Thanks in advance for thinking with me :)
1950Panhead
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#2

Post by 1950Panhead »

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RUBONE
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#3

Post by RUBONE »

The centering cone has nothing to do with rotation, so whether it is there or not doesn't matter. If your top nut is coming loose you have an issue with the top nut, top clamp, and crown nut. When the bearings are adjusted the top clamp/tree drops over it and the top nut locks them all together. Make sure your top clamp is tightly captured between them, some aftermarket nuts have too long a shoulder for some top clamps. The lock tab also does not matter if the nuts are correct.
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Sarre
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#4

Post by Sarre »

Quick "good morning" reply.

@1950Panhead Thanks mate, but that is not the fork I'm using; I have a 45 springer with VTwin conversion cups.

@RUBONE Thanks so much for your rapid respons, clarifying a lot.
1) found the location of the spring washer, thanks!
2) I did bottom out the "actuating sleeve", so that was an installation error which I will fix.
3) The lower race centering cone question is not only in regard to the moving top nuts but also for the long term preservation of the fork; I'm wondering what is the effect of not using it? I don't think I really noticed anything weird handling wise.
4) "some aftermarket nuts have too long a shoulder for some top clamps." I will check this and compare this with my previous top handlebar lock nut; because I changed that nut from a colony acorn to an after market chrome one intended for the damper. But my top clamp is not standard so it might even be to thick..

Again, I'll make some pics today and post them later.
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#5

Post by RUBONE »

he lower race centering cone question is not only in regard to the moving top nuts but also for the long term preservation of the fork; I'm wondering what is the effect of not using it?
It will not affect anything. The earlier (pre'39) fork did not use a centering cone, the race sat flush on the bottom tree. The idea of the cone is to allow a bit more self alignment of all the parts, however without it there is no real issue. The inner races do not turn independently in use, they only rotate with the entire fork and only the balls roll in the cups. So the inner race does not wear on the fork, merely rests solidly on it with no cone. As to longevity, if the parts are good OEM (I can't make claims for aftermarket stuff), and kept adjusted and properly lubed, you will never wear it out in your lifetime.
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#6

Post by Sarre »

This is my current set-up, placed a new marker line but had no time to ride unfortunately.
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Last edited by Sarre on Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#7

Post by panhead »

Better upload pictures than use Flickr etc.
Sarre
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#8

Post by Sarre »

Flickr is just horrible if you are working with it on your phone; had to start up the desktop again to get this picture in.. :x
Sarre
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#9

Post by Sarre »

Confirmed, it still moves:
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I wonder why the cone is tightening. Also the top nut rotates.
I'll take it a part soon and do some measurements on the shoulder of the nut and measure if it bottoms out on the cone or is floating in the top clamp.
Sarre
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#10

Post by Sarre »

So I need about 0.16" of shoulder on the top nut to bottom out on the upper adjusting cone, that part that goes in to the top clamp.

- The chrome, parkerized and galvanized, top nuts meant for the steering damper has about 0.193" shoulder, as is visible in the pictures above; it bottoms out on the adjusting cone.
- The acorn Colony top nut has about 0.134" shoulder, thus it doesn't bottom out on the adjusting cone.

If I fasten the chrome top nut (for the steering damper) the adjusting cone starts to thread down as well, makes sense, I locked the adjusting cone and tried to fasten (double nut) the two; after riding the top nut simply came loose; I'm considering putting some red locktite on the top nut. However, I guess that it won't fix the possible spinning of the adjusting cone.
RUBONE wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:43 am If your top nut is coming loose you have an issue with the top nut, top clamp, and crown nut. When the bearings are adjusted the top clamp/tree drops over it and the top nut locks them all together. Make sure your top clamp is tightly captured between them, some aftermarket nuts have too long a shoulder for some top clamps.
From the schematic @RUBONE posted, and your description Rubone and others (reference below), it is unclear to me whether the top nut has to bottom out on the adjusting cone or that an unoccupied space has to be there. Based on your description Rubone about "too long shoulder" I guess it shouldn't bottom out and that you "sandwich" the clamp between to "short" shoulders.

Hope citing another thread on a different forum is not like swearing in the church :) different springer fork same type of issue: http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthrea ... 939&page=2
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#11

Post by Lowbikemike »

If the nut shoulders are bottoming out on each other you are loosing all of your clamping force for the top tree plate. The illustration posted shows a small air gap between the two shoulders, as it should be.
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Re: Minor front fork issues

#12

Post by Sarre »

Reporting back with an issue free front end and knowing what to do when I want to put the steering damper back on. Piece.
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