Loose pushrods again and again

[Raytag]

1951 74cui

new non-adjustable steel pushrods S&S 93-5059
new JIMS solid tapets 2475-1 (oversize)
OEM tappet guides honed
Cam is a new S&S H-type grind.
Bushings in cover all new (crankcase and cylinders all done). Cam fits nicely into bushing.

Starting cold, after riding for 1 mile, I start to hear the pushrods.
Another mile the front cylinder is becoming really noisy.
With engine still warm I remove the pushrod covers and the pushrods of the front cylinder are loose, really loose.
The front exhaust has up & down play.
The pushrods in the rear aren`t that bad but loose, too
The pushrods are straight.
The locknuts on each adjusting screw is tight

I removed the cover of the engine too see if a bearing of a tappet is blown.
All good.

After adjusting the valves cold, I`m rotating the engine and check each pushrod again for looseness and tighten it a lil more
if needed. I`m rotating the engine several times thru and keep on checking each pushrod constantly to find any loose spot.
I do feel occasionally a bind on each of them
The "ballheads" of the pushrods fit snugly into the cup of the rocker-arm and adjusting screw

Weeks ago I checked on the rockerarms. Yes they do have axial play, the clearance is a lil more than the max of .012.

Is the axial play of the rockerarm responsible for that ?
When inserting the pushrods into the adjusting screws I`m oiling that cup of the adjusting screws
Bad idea ?
Maybe get new lock nuts because the taper isn`t smooth ?
Maybe get new adjusting screws ? With 1.531" long there are maybe too short ?

Totally pissed with my narrow-mindedness

Ray

[RooDog]

Something strange is going on here, Ray....
My 1950 Panny project with an Andrews #1 cam is quite for a Panhead. Colony solid aluminum push rods & OEM Harley adjustable solid lifters. Watching the ignition cam & points, I adjusted each pair of pushrods when their cylinders were at the top of the compression stroke. There's no magic here, both valves are closed at the point of ignition[/i] and most of the power stroke. On a whim, checking for some other issue, I deliberately adjusted the PRs 1/2 turn looser than zero, and was rewarded with a still acceptable sound level. It turned out that the early Pan splined pinion gear was sloppy loose on the crank's pinion shaft causing all sorts of slop and noise from the gear train inside the cam cover. Pushrods can be run loose, in fact they loosen as the engine warms up, but should never be adjusted tight nor on a hot engine which leads to loss of cranking compression, hard starting, and even burned valves. Note: Harley Victory, FLH, cams were not designed to be run "solid" no acceleration ramps designed into the lobes to take up the slack as are usually designed into aftermarket "solid" cams. This could be your source of the noise. ....RooDog....

[awander]

the pushrods will loosen up as the engine heats up because the expansion of the engine is different from the rods.

That's the whole reason that hydraulic lifters were invented, to compensate for different expansion rates.

It is usual to hear some ticking from the valve train when warm. I think that's why they are called "tappets"...

[RooDog]

The sounds from a running Harley are much sweeter than the silence of a parked motor. I learned to enjoy the mechanical music, as have many of us, but constantly keep an ear for the unwanted noise, tick,or squeak, that speaks to us in the language that only the owner/builder understands.
I once had a road noise that was driving me batty. It turned out to be a loose face shield snap on my helmet vibrating in the wind, but it was torture until I discovered it.... Same for a piece of shifter linkage.....
....RooDog....

[59Panman]

I recently discovered what was causing a nasty squeaky vibration on taking off from 1st gear. It turned out that my trumpet horn broke where it mounts to the horn power pack nut. I just happened to check the connection and found out it had broke.

[RUBONE]

Checking pushrods on a warm engine is an exercise in futility.

[Mongrel505558]

I had that problem with my front exhaust pushrod when I was running solids. It was extended so far there were only a couple of threads engaging the locknut and it stripped. Dropped a Velva-Touch lifter and pushrod kit in and never looked back. Nothing wrong with solids - that was the only problem I had with them and I suppose I could have eventually found a cure, but I'm not racing, so I don't need the real advantage solids give you. If I hit 4,000 RPM I'm going plenty fast enough on this bike.

[socalrider]

Velvas are the best! Are you running them in a pan? I have them in 2 pans.

[RooDog]

Velva Touch lifters may be the cats meow, but are not cost effective for me....

http://shop.velvatouchlifters.com/produ ... roductId=1

$1,695.00 is more than I care to pay for something I feel is not superior to solids, dollar for dollar. But then, that's just me....
....RooDog.....

[Mongrel505558]

Velvas are the best! Are you running them in a pan? I have them in 2 pans.

Yes. Twenty something years with no problems.

[Mongrel505558]

Velva Touch lifters may be the cats meow, but are not cost effective for me....

http://shop.velvatouchlifters.com/produ ... roductId=1

$1,695.00 is more than I care to pay for something I feel is not superior to solids, dollar for dollar. But then, that's just me....
....RooDog.....

Yeah, they are ridiculously expensive at that price. Even when I bought them back in the last century they were one of the most expensive purchases on the bike at $700 and change. But now that a lot of time has passed the $$$ hurt has been absorbed and I don't worry about my lifters. I had them apart once to clean them after the bike sat for a few years. Still quietly doing their job.

[socalrider]

Mongrel, are you still running the original iron oil pump with the original drive gear? I am on my 65 with no issues whatso ever. Dave at BMO recommends putting a larger drive gear if using the original iron oil pump. I did on my 63 and all was good but when i saw that the original drive gear on my 65 worked good too i switched the drive gear on the 63 back to the original one.my oil pressure light on my 65 dont come on even at idle after a long ride, and yes the light and switch do work. I agree that they are expensive ( I paid $1000 per set for mine) but the peace of mind they provide is well worth it to me. Absolutely no worries about a collapsing lifter or a failed tappet roller needle bearing grenading my bottom end .

[Mongrel505558]

Mongrel, are you still running the original iron oil pump with the original drive gear? I am on my 65 with no issues whatso ever. Dave at BMO recommends putting a larger drive gear if using the original iron oil pump. I did on my 63 and all was good but when i saw that the original drive gear on my 65 worked good too i switched the drive gear on the 63 back to the original one.my oil pressure light on my 65 dont come on even at idle after a long ride, and yes the light and switch do work. I agree that they are expensive ( I paid $1000 per set for mine) but the peace of mind they provide is well worth it to me. Absolutely no worries about a collapsing lifter or a failed tappet roller needle bearing grenading my bottom end .

Socalrider, my bike is a pieced-together "mongrel" - that's why I used the name as my handle here. It never rolled out of Milwaukee as one bike. So honestly I've never even had the original oil pump. Been running an S&S cast pump since the beginning so I've always had more than adequate oiling. I'm more concerned with over-oiling - particularly the top end. As for the Velvet Touch lifters' performance with different oil pumps: I experimented with removing the "plug" in the end of my pinion shaft to convert from one-shot per 360 degrees to constant oil feed to the crank pin. This obviously diverts oil from the lifters and top end, but it didn't affect their performance. I ended up putting the plug back into the pinion shaft for peace of mind more than anything else.

Jim

[RooDog]

I just looked in an older $&$ catalog and could not confirm this, but I seem to remember in the instruction sheet for their oil pump that the valving is tuned to provide priority pressure feed to the lifters/top end, and then as the valve opens further to the crank pinion. Over oiling the top end can be controlled by filling & drilling the external oil line fitting at the rear of the block going to the heads down to 1/16". I like full flow to the crank, but the plug in the end of the pinion too should be metered somewhere between .040 and .062".... Bottom line is that the hydraulic lifters need to fit the lifter blocks properly, and be well supplied with clean oil. Of course priority oiling to the lifters becomes a non-issue if one has sloppy lifter block to lifter clearances, and/or solids. It is so much fun tryin' to make these classic machines work....
....RooDog.....

[Raytag]

Question to those with solid lifter conversion on Pans till 1953
How many miles does it take till you can hear that sweat tick-tick-tick from the valves/pushrods ?
10,15, 20mls ?

Thanks
Ray