Loose pushrods again and again

Solied lifter loose when warming up

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awander
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#16

Post by awander »

I think you're always going to hear some-there has to be a tiny bit of clearance even when the engine is cold.

And I don't think it takes even 5 miles before I can hear it louder.
Raytag
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#17

Post by Raytag »

After a 10mls ride at ~70F air temp all pushrods are loose.
I can lift them up maybe some .04 maybe more
After cooling down, they`re fine like I adjusted them before

So I`m wondering how many miles it takes till the pushrods heated up, expanded enough to create just a ticking ?
BTW: I`m not expecting hydro alike ticking but I was thinking 10mls should be more than enough

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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#18

Post by Ratedspeed »

Have you tried re-torquing the head bolts? It's amazing how much expansion there is between the iron jug and the aluminum head when heat is applied.
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#19

Post by Mongrel505558 »

This is a long shot, but when was the last time the heads were off? A loose or dropped valve seat will definitely open up the valve lash, along with other issues that will make you wish you just had the noise. Of course this would be apparent if it was just one pushrod that you continuously have to adjust as the seat gradually drops more (best case,) or a dent eventually gets whacked in your piston and a bent stem and scarred bore (worse case) if the seat drops far enough. I went through this myself, unfortunately. Anyway, that was a long time ago, and my pan sounds like a cement mixer, and always has, but I know all is well in the motor and it runs fantastic. I also have a BDL clutch, which makes a racket, and an open belt with the typical whine, generator whine, etc. This motorcycle is a whole orchestra of industrial noises, but I've learned to like the sound. When the sound changes is when you worry.

Good luck. I'm sure if there is a problem you'll find it, and if all is well you'll learn to live with the sound.

Jim
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#20

Post by Mongrel505558 »

I just reread your last post where you said when the motor cools down it's quiet again. That's a good thing. I'm pretty sure that blows away my loose seat theory. I'd just keep riding it. You'll know it if something is really going wrong.

Jim
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#21

Post by Sarre »

I’ve got the same experience as @awander.
Raytag
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#22

Post by Raytag »

Me again, sorted out other issues but now I have a question.
I`m not sure if I know what those early rocker arms with welch plugs look alike.
Is it this one ?
rockerarm1.jpg
rockerarm1.jpg (120.77 KiB) Viewed 482 times
I`ve read about loose welch plugs ... no idea about the consequences

Thanks
Ray
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#23

Post by panhead_kicker »

Raytag wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:12 pm ...early rocker arms with welch plugs ...
Do you mean the socket at the end of the arm?
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#24

Post by Raytag »

Yes, sorry no pic from the other side cause I took it months ago.
If I remember correctly there was a socket-in-the-socket.

Cause it`s like that:
With engine hot/warm, with removed pushrod covers, I can pull the pushrod to me or push it towards the cylinder. Not up and down. I can spin the pushrod with one finger. First I was thinking of far too much endplay of the rocker arm but maybe that socket is loose once hot ?

When cold I can`t pull the pushrod to me or push it towards the cylinder and the pushrod clearance is like I adjusted before
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#25

Post by Raytag »

looking like that

viewtopic.php?f=383&t=1533
awander
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#26

Post by awander »

What you are describing is normal, with solid lifters.

When the engine warms up, different things expand at different rates, and the pushrods will be able to wiggle back and forth if you push on them.
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#27

Post by Andygears »

I’m guessing here. First off, you might try getting one of those temp. guns to quantify how hot the motor gets. Perhaps the oil used or some other (friction) factor internally is causing excessive heat. Add to that the steel pushrods which will expand more slowly than aluminum.
Next, “Side slop”, if the lifters in the blocks are loose, adjusting tight will only last until heat expands the cylinder upward, then all the clearance between the lifter and block is added in allowing the lifter to rattle in the bore. More often this happens with those cheap little inserts that convert hydraulic lifters to solids, and the crappy inserts made of soft metal wear against the hard OEM lifter. But you have “New Jim’s Lifters” with the adjusters screwing into the solid lifter and locking with a tapered split nut, correct?
And lastly, look for cracks. If the head is cracked above the right side head bolt, between the fins, expansion would increase looseness, and a crack behind the jug nuts (as seen often after broken all the way) would allow the same excess movement and probably more internal friction to make clearance and noise.

Andygears
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#28

Post by Raytag »

I have installed Colony aluminum pushrods couple of days ago
Cracks I haven`t seen and I cleaned the heads thoroughly.
New lifter in honed blocks

Some short shaky porn.
Here`s a link to an external video-server cause the files are much bigger than expected.
Google Chrome works.
With my Linux-computer Firefox wouldn`t stream it
Air-temp ~ 86F
oil-temp ~ 165F
~25mls ride




This next vid was taken some 2hrs later


Thanks
ray
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#29

Post by awander »

I'd say the "2 hours later" is just a smidge too tight. you should be able to rotate the pushrod with just one finger while the engine is cold.
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Re: Loose pushrods again and again

#30

Post by Andygears »

awander wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:21 pm I'd say the "2 hours later" is just a smidge too tight. you should be able to rotate the pushrod with just one finger while the engine is cold.
I agree but two hours is not enough to cool everything to “cold” for adjustment. The “hot” video shows a lot of side slop but at the rocker end. Do the cups on the rockers cradle the pushrod end well? Do the rockers fit the blocks well? Both end play and radially?
If you do remove the head & pan cover, try reassembling without covers on the head or pushrod tubes, then play with the adjustment and see what is sloppy. Go from too tight to just loose and see where looseness starts. Half a flat on the adjuster or 1/12 of a turn is about as precise an adjustment as you can get. So one more 1/12 should not create a lot of sloppiness, just a few thousands of clearance.
When all is done, it’s solid lifters and may make more noise from your combination of pan covers, exhaust pipes, air cleaner amplifying the noise.

Andygears
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