Rockerbox tin (cakepans)

[BigMike]

Description: While putting the cakepans and "D" rings on, it seemed that they were very tight, fore and aft.

I'm putting my '64 back together after a top-end job. While putting the cakepans and "D" rings on, it seemed that they were very tight, fore and aft. even to the point of touching the valvesprings. These covers were on the bike when I got it and look real good but the fit concerns me. (I found a "Made in Taiwan" tag inside one of them) If I place the D rings on without the tin, they clear the springs nicely, but if I try the tin, it seems that the springs are touching, no clearance at all. Did I just find the actual original cause of my valveguides going to hell? (it did seem to be a bit loud in the top end all along) Am I worrying for nothing? Should I yank the heads back off and change the covers? (just got them torqued down, and got the intake to seal perfectly, wouldn't ya know it?) maybe compare a couple different sets to see if the ones I have are appreciably different? I don't remember my last pan's covers fitting like this..... of course, I do have a few less brain cells than back then.
Cotten?????

[VintageTwin]

Any knock marks inside the cover where top collars would have hit? If not maybe Taiwan was trying to build lids cheaper and used a smaller mold. That's a stretch, but the collars shuldn't touch the cover's sides. Don't forget to glue in the felt pads. Use 3M weatherstrip adhesive (yellow).

[Cotten]

Sunken seats in Panheads presents more of a problem of springpack clearance than flow or guide wear grief.
Genuine covers can interfere just about as easily as cheapos. The telltale crescent imprints in most covers are proof; The amazing aspect is that so many run so long anyway. Ignorance is bliss,...for a minute.
Beware also of performance spring kits with tall collars. (In the '70's, and later for barnyard shops, it was a common practice to shave down the spring seat on the head to accomodate high lift cams. Now those heads are considered trashed.)
Your options would be either to go through an entire swap of spring spacing or even oversize valves, with beveling the collars on a lathe and every other fudge imaginable,...short of seat replacement,... or to grind clearance on the pans and hope you don't hit daylight.
I have even gone so far as to relieve the D-rings and beat out the covers for an extra few thou of clearance. But you have to re-grind the gasket flange as it wil distort it.

[BigMike]

I did see a minor mark on the inside of one of them, yep a light crescent. It appears as if the tin is undersize, I can place the D rings over the tin, and slop them back and forth between 1/8 and 1/4" seems like a lot to me. The springs and retainers are new, stock height. (machine work done by the pros at Advance/ Superior.) As much as I hate to, I'm going to pull them back off. I'd rather take the time to do it right this time than to re-do the work when it may not be as convenient. I've got a set of cast covers to compare the ID, and I may be able to find at least one original cover in my "old and likely never to be used" spare parts box to compare. I'd think that I could finesse a little extra clearance if I have to, but don't want to induce sealing problems. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks guys

[Fast Ed 53]

Vintagetwin, Excuse my ignorance but what are these felt pieces your talking about? Ed

[dirtydistrict]

Hello guys, few ideas of the day
First, Cotten is right about sunken seats, before I change for Std Heads, i couldn't fit my intake pushrods without pushing hard on the setting screws
Take care about rockers stud clearance also, i had to cut mine a little; they were hitting the pan, you could use the thicker gasket (anyway the thinner one don't give good result) it help for clearance.
Felt are used to "soften" all the rock and rolling noise; ya know these cakepans are like a guitar body; they amplify the music ;D

[VintageTwin]

If you want to go "way out there" to quieten even more of the noise after you glued the felt pads in, order a can of Noise Killer Blue from Gardner-Wescott. A brush/spray viscoelastic that turns the energy given off by noise into a low-grade heat and spreads it throughout the covered area. Paint it on the inside of both gas tanks. You won't be able to see it. Then add a gas tank filler strip (61122-39) between the tanks. Rests on the wiring harness in front of the seat T-bar pivot bolt. Teach noise a lesson it will never forget.
I didn't see you felt pad question Ed. There are no stupid H-D questions on this site. People on this site only know bits of info and they are "connecting-the-dots" with more info.
The felt pads (17507-4Cool They glue into the center of the cover with 3M weatherstrip adhesive. You need them. Send me 12 bucks and I'll send you two or by all means someone send him two cheaper (e-bay in reverse). Get the 3M from NAPA.

[2dogs]

BigMike: I second the DirtyD's remark. If you are not doing so already, get the thick, cork gasket for the covers, not the thin ones. I read somewhere, last year while putting the heads and covers back on, that you should always use the thick, cork gasket for the rocker covers.
Offered for what it's worth.

2dogs

[Cotten]

April Fool's?

Thick (and usually spongy) gaskets allow the pan flange to distort from fastener torque.
If your flanges are truly flat, then a thin gasket and sealer not only fills the gap, but prevents the flange from going wavy-gravy when you snug things up later down the road.
How fat did the Factory make them?
Many aftermarket pan covers hit the rocker studs. It is not the gasket's fault!
Although the felt does a little to deaden the ringing of the valvetrain, its intended purpose was to distribute oil. Beware of the adhesive you use: NO silicone!. Methylene chloride based adhesives that resemble weatherstrip adhesive, or 3M #800 sealer are best.

[mbskeam]

hello, has any body used the gaskets made out of siliconesed rubber, from acurrate engineering?. these are used on the neopan motors. thanks Mbskeam

[dirtydistrict]

Hi Cotten; never had any trouble with thick PAPER gasket (never tried the cork one); the use of D ring prevent any possible distortion of pan flange and equalize the load.
As usual, not the blind truth but a personal advice with respect to anyone here.

[Cotten]

Let us not forget that some years came with no reinforcing ring, and a "correct" assembly can not use them.
The early d-rings of three layers do little to prevent distortion if overtorqued, as they bend as well. The fat aluminum D-rings were an attempt to prevent distortion of flimsy aluminum covers, but I have yet to find a used pan that was not wavy anyway.
In fact, brand new pans are not flat! Even Paughco's.
Grinding to flat assures a seal with a longer life, and reduces the D-ring to a vanity item instead of a bandaid.

[VintageTwin]

I"m using the thick corks for my newly re-furbed heads. If Accurate sells anything get it. Gaskets, whatever they come up with. Those people live-Pan.
Mine is a '59. Alum. D-rings. I am tired though of having to re-tighten the cover screws, after the (thick) corks compress and harden, so this time I am using Loc-tite (medium) on the cover screws. If I have to tighten them later on, the Loc-tite will still be on the threads causing an impedance. Whadda youses think?

[sleeper]

I wouldn't put the tops on without blue[medium] loc-tite
It's a wonderful aid to HD repair, 'used correctly' it can
certainly help keep things tight.
Some may disagree, but this works well for me...

VT, in your case you likely will have to retighten due to the thick cork compressing over time. As you mentioned. But I'd still [medium] loc-tite them. Just the same!!

[weezeo]

I too, am putting a motor back together and I used the thick, almost like cardboard, gaskets with the thin d-rings. I ran the aluminum covers for about 12 years w/ thick d-rings, a little more noisey than steel but polish nice, (along with my aluminum lifter bases, going for the liteness). I also always thought that the felts were for dripping oil onto the rocker arms to get the "high spots" along with the noise deading. but never had that problem BM is having. I just bought a set of new chromed covers (steel) to get rid of the aluminum ones, But all clears well. Is the stuff you paint inside good idea? I'd like to do it also before motor goes back into frame. Noise Killer Blue from Gardner-Wescott are we talking bout painting the inside covers? or gas Tanks? I got lost on that one.