Head gaskets

[PanPal]

I am replacing head gaskets. Is one style better than the others. I had original Harley gaskets on it. I now have James gaskets ready to bolt on.
A bolt or 2 was loose when the motor was fired up for the first time. They were torqued when oil seepage ( on my buddies side of the bike of coarse) was noticed in the first 15 minutes running. These were original Harley gaskets which I thought were thicker and may seal better. I think by time the heads were torqued properly, the damage was done.
What works the best? Should the gaskets be sprayed or coated with anything prior to installation?

[King]

PenPal

I have James under my STD heads and they have been there for about 2 years with nary a problem.
One word of warning though. Before you install the next set be sure that the heads are true and that the steel bolt inserts are not protruding. I have a 2' X 2' sheet of plate glass and put a sheet of 400 grit emery paper on it and rub the head around to check for trueness. Usually you can rub them flat if they are a little off.

Good luck

King

[King]

Oh I forgot to add. Don't coat them with anything .

King

[sleeper]

I believe King covered it very well.
I like the James Gaskets, as my own preference!
1 additional thing that I do is after it's first warm-up heat, is re-torque the Head bolts. Haven't had any problems following this procedure...
my 2 cents...

[PanPal]

Great, I'm on the right track with the gaskets I have. I think one insert in the front head protrudes a little. It is not warped from what I have checked. I have used Glass to lap in the past. I'll give it a go. Do you know what the insert looks like inside the head?? Tapered larger inside the head or hour glass shape??? I hope it is thread pull and not the insert pulling.

Thanks for the input!

[mbskeam]

hello, The insert looks like a 1-1/4 long cly. with 3 ring that stick out from the sides. And I believe that the steel insert over time works its way down, because the alum. compresses over time, heating and cooling and from porosity in the alum.This is what I am told. As for sanding with the insert sticking out, it sould be spot faced on a mill or good drill press to about .010 below the surface.Sanding steel in alum. could leed to big problems. :-/ I have found out the hard way. Mbskeam

[VintageTwin]

If you re-torque the heads to 65 ft. lbs., make sure you loosen the top (frame) motor mount bolt (remove the right gas tank, if not both) and loosen the push rods, or remove the push rod covers and hang the lower covers with bungee cords or coathangers find out at which position the pushrods have no tension on them. If not, you will be pulling the head down against the mighty-tight of all the "fixed" appurtenances. In other words...the head won't come down into the head gasket and the next weakest link are the inserts that will begin to pull out.......and that is the truth as is known to me.
Use a fire-ring head gasket, the ones with a metal lip, but have the inserts "spotted". If you don't and the head is uneven, buy a stack of head gaskets, you might need them.

[PanPal]

I have a mill and a fly cutter, but I worry about taking too much off the head, or chatter when I cut the steel inserts. Spot facing sounds good, but .010" below the surface. I will loose a good bit of gasket contact surface and maybe stress the head when it's torqued and the motor grows as it warms up.
As for sanding them on Glass, The exhaust port makes it difficult to sand in a figure 8 pattern. I want to attempt this to look for warpage.
What about a fine file loaded with chalk? The chalk keeps the shaving from sticking to the file and gouging the aluminum. Perhaps a little air blowing at the area I'm working on to get rid of shaving each time I file it??? any takers on this idea?
It's a pretty nice 58 to 62 FLH head. and all I need is to knock down the crown on the one insert.
Where do I get these fire ring gaskets. I like the sound of this.
My tanks are off and the pushrods are removed, so I'm doing OK here. I will make sure the top mount is loose for the retorque after start up and every torque there after. Thanx for the reminder. I share this ride with Panoply and we are preparing for the POR 15 coating now. I have a 5 day cure time for bench work and installation.

All this input is helpful.
Please keep ideas coming! Great site!

[mower dude]

I think that you may be playing with fire here. You have an valuable antique. I would not let anyone who isn't licensed touch anything on my Pan. Find a Harley dealer that has directions to their machine shop. Don't listen to anyone that doesn't have an MMI patch or four on their sleeve. I'm a vet, I wouldn't lie to youse.If you want some quick advise call Chuck @ Kick-Start (616) 245-8991, he has the fire ring head gaskets, but they won't help if you have head surface problems. FIND YOURSELF A MECHANIC AND MACHINE SHOP THAT WORKS ON PAN HEADS EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THEIR LIFE. DO NOT, WE REPEAT, DO NOT let a good "willing monkey" touch your motor. And you stay away from it too. You don't see me messing around with sandpaper and random insert spotting. One thing I was told, "Don't remove any metal from the head surface". Go call the local H-D dealer for direction or Chuck and get back to us with the results. At least you haven't gone beyond the point of no return yet.

[mbskeam]

hello, I think that taking the heads to a shop to have the them surfaced on the proper equipment is a good idea, and done by some one that knows whats up. But I can say this: I blew a head gasket 20000 miles ago, due to protruding inserts. And was told to spot them all .010 deep . Did this at work on a mill. 20000 miles latter I have had no head gasket problems. But now as for those worn valve guides that I need to replace. let the fun begain. There are many ways to get to the end result: RIDING IN THE WIND
Mbskeam " Its all good"

[VintageTwin]

Yeah..but paint..that's one thing. Make a mistake, wipe it off ...start spraying again. But, to remove metal from a head, without a jig, without having ever done it before..i dunno...this is a big money hobby..you goof up on a set of heads..maybe get the intake manifold not matching up with the ports anymore. I'd be skaird. I had one (1) bad motor built once. One. Once. That was enough to make a believer out of me.

[mbskeam]

hello, remember that the pan engine is based off of mid 30s technology. made to be worked on by the simpletons like me ;D.whats the worst thing you can do if its broke already , ... brake it some more???? try the work its fun, and O so sassifing. its all about fun.
Mbskeam

[sleeper]

V T, When I was a kid I built a "Bad" motor. Just Learning.. But, it made a better motor builder out of me..
Like riding the horse & falling off, gotta get back on..
But some people are better off leaving the mechanics to
professionals. & Nothing wrong with that. Except the only learning you achieve is, what you were told & maybe what you saw, if you understood.

[sleeper]

Panpal, If you are not gonna do this by hand.
Then a multi-fluted end mill just the size of the threaded
hole. Then you really don't lose any gasket mating surface.. If you are not very experienced on the milling machine, either do it by hand or, as suggested get a machinist that is GOOD with Harleys[Panheads]
my 2 cents... ;D

[Cotten]

Some observations particular to aluminum heads:
Castings that have seen extended service often warp from the endless compressions and heat cycles. When the head is inverted for inspection, low spots are usually found on the gasket surface directly 'over' the ports where the metal is thinnest. These are what you must correct.
Milling the gasket surfaces is expensive, of course, and often removes enough to increase compression, as well as some of the life of the casting, considering it shall probably warp again in service.
So there is some merit to hand dressing.
Drawfiling the puckering inserts is fine and proper, if you do not scar the rest of the surface. Counterboring them slightly can be easier, but not entirely necessary, as the headgaskets provide a relief that is sufficient for proper torquing.
Hand-lapping takes a lot of attention as well, since you cannot over-stroke very well close to the exhaust port.
Since lapping compound is painfully slow to remove metal stock, and tends to embed as well, try a 12" or larger adhesive-backed sanding disc upon your glass plate. A little WD-40 for lube helps it cut cleanly, with a texture that holds the gasket. (Beware that there is such a thing as too smooth).
I am lucky enough to have what is affectionately called a "Polish Mill", which is a 42" Milacron stone used for a table top. (It stays in one place, and I run around it with the work.)
Once flat, it is imperative to properly torque evenly when assembling. If you depend upon a "clicker' wrench, you are making it quite hard on yourself.