Heads

[Excalibur]

Got the heads cleaned and found cracks. Reading up I find it's quite common occurrence. I'm posting the photos I took here, then off for more study of the subject.

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Front head. Inlet seat looks bronze color.

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Front head

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Front intake

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Front

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Front. Cracked to/from head bolt insert.

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Rear

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Rear

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Rear

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Rear

Am planning to do a pressure leak test as soon as possible

[58flh]

Excaliber------Correct on the plug cracks,It is common place with OEM heads.Also I see that the seats have been cut DEEP & A lot.You can see the valve-grinding right into the Alum. where it should not be.But Overlaying like Headhog does will bring seats to thir OEM height.The crak that runs from the star bolt mount is bad!.You can almost see it pulled on the star-fastener & you know that means the head must be sanded level on a piece of glass with 400-grit & a circular motion.--To much to explain & you will find it in the K-BASE!.IF you have a good shop that can handle the seats & all else involved GET a quote.Then call Don Sullivan of headhog & talk to him.Send some pics.to.so he can see whats-up.Also the Bronze-Guides got to go,As you will be putting in new ones anyway.Years ago Guys with sunk seats like yours would actually grind a seat on the ALUM. As yours are showing. Then buy oversize valves & it was a backasswards way of getting by for a few without all the expence of doing it correctly.Good-Luck.Those are salvageable///BUT its not cheap!.-----Respectfully----Richie

[Huck]

That crack running to the intake is a pisser. Looks like it’s already been worked on. Mine are cracked much worse at the spark plug holes. I did mine backasswards, oversize valves cut down a bit, relocated the seat. They’re still running fine, I’ve put 5K miles on them.

[RUBONE]

Those appear to be factory FLH heads with ported intakes. That crack along the edge of the valve seat can allow a large chunk to break off. Many of those heads are actually missing a piece there. H-D quit the porting later on due to those issues and left FLH intake ports rough cast.

[kitabel]

Am planning to do a pressure leak test as soon as possible

???

Cylinder pressure runs 700-900 psi.

[Excalibur]

Thanks for the thoughts and comments. Most appreciated.

I've taken the time and effort to do a study of the topic with K-base, Mr.Google and Youtube. I've learnt a tremendous amount. Collectively there's a great deal of experience of Hydra-glide forum members and I thank all for sharing such valuable info. Overall I find there's a variety of opinion as to how to proceed. Sending the heads abroad is somewhat out of the question, the US expert welders are some 7000 miles away so freight alone would kill the idea. Pans are exceedingly rare out here. NZ missed the era of knuckle, pan and even shovels arrived late. Finding spare Pan heads in any condition would be a minor miracle. Consequently most any local alum welder would never have even seen a Pan head let alone know how to correctly go about repair.

My plan is like this. My son is an excellent aluminum welder with all of his own equipment. He is a qualified welder working mostly with stainless. The steps as I see them go like this.
1/. Thoroughly clean, shine the area to be welded. It's tipped that citric acid will draw the oils from the porous casting. Basically place head in a large cooking pot, cover with water, add a dozen lemons cut into pieces. With heat, the oils will float to the surface. The alum is then as clean as it can be without oil fizzing and festering to the surface while welding.
2/. Grind out the crack with a die-grinder. Chase the crack till all sign is removed.
3/. Preheat the head. Aim to evaporate any water.
4/. Fill the crack beginning with a route run, then layering run upon run till a good buildup is obtained. Usually it's better to put more on than you think and machine the surplus away.
5/. Immediately the weld is finished, wrap the head in insulation/blankets to hold the heat for as long as possible. The object is to bring the heat down as slow as possible.

Please comment and help refine the technique. Thanks.

[58flh]

To get all the oil in the pours of the Alum./Yes citric.will work but I never done that to cases or heads.Put them in the oven & hold them there at 150-170 degrees--You can watch the oil form droplets where its mostly sitting.The rockerarm side will have plety to give-up near the drains,& around that section.It will also come out in places that you just scratch your head at!.To wipe inbetween when there hot & still baking get a GOOD clean rag & wipe with a little vinegar.It should take about 35-min. once the oven reaches 150-degrees Farenheight.Dont put them in until oven is ready..As far as your son welding the heads-up /I think its a great IDEA!.BUT give him old cast alum. that's pourous to practice his tig-skills on.Mig is not the way to go/But I have even gotten away with migging the upper head mount to frame crack,& it holding still today.But the cracks that are fixing finns, intake Ex. Nipples, plug-cracks.This takes much experience to do correct.The best thing to use to clean the heads after all work is done & machine operations is a real NON-Corosive cleaner called simple-green.I believe you can get that in all the states.--Good-Luck----Respectfully------Richie

[old.wrench]

excalibur,
You are on pretty much the right track with your cleaning procedure, and as Richie suggests, more oil and crud will be released when you heat the heads. The cleaner they are, the better the weld. Aluminum castings require a lot of heat to get get a good weld. Aluminum is a good conductor, which means that the heat that you put into the weld puddle tends to transfer to the rest of the casting pretty rapidly; that's one reason why it's helpful to pre-heat the casting before welding. Another reason to pre-heat is that it will help reduce warping. It might be helpful to use a supplementary source of heat to keep the head hot throughout the welding process, like a hot table. After making those welds, you'll want to reface the head gasket surface for sure; you will also want to check the rocker block decks for flatness.

I suppose the next big question is, what are your plans for the valve seats?

Lots of work involved in bringing a tired old set of heads back to new life .

Geo.

[old.wrench]

Richie mentioned using Simple Green as a cleaner - I really like that stuff and use it all the time. It does the job!
I recall a discussion on this forum about Simple Green being "outlawed" in some repair shops because if it wasn't thoroughly rinsed it could in some cases be corrosive. The last time I was at the local tool and die supply outfit I saw that Simple Green had come out with a new version that was approved for aircraft use. It comes in jugs with blue printing on it.

Geo.

[Excalibur]

Thanks, good thoughtful comments.

The news got worse today when I discovered more leaks at the intake valve seat to port. Also both heads leak at the spark plug though I haven't isolated whether it's from the thread or insert, though I suspect the latter. The seats are receded as well so the valve height is somewhat more than spec. It's a shame because the fins are good as are all threads.

Because the bike isn't especially original, I'm leaning toward the idea of getting a pair of new heads. Trawling through screeds of talk about new Pan heads I hear STD heads are perhaps the best quality with the claim that their T6 alum is superior. Comments of STD ceasing trading are mentioned??
V-twin have a better price tag but I note there is more suspicion of quality. No horror stories of poor fit/quality anywhere I've found as yet.

Regarding STD, I'm understanding they use Shovelhead valve parts. SO does this mean I can't use any of my Pan springs/collars/keepers??

Best deal I've found so far for STD is via J&P cycles $1321 plus shipping an extra hundred for bare heads, (no stock on assembled heads, $1591).

I suppose I'm writing because it's a large amount of cash so I need to think carefully. In addition I get hit with 15% tax on shipping included total.

Any comment would be appreciated

[panhead]

Have you checked the STD site: http://stddevelopment.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=15

[steve_wood]

Excalibur,

I put a set of STD heads on my mill. No problems. There is a model that has the correct intake and exhaust spigots for most (if not all) models. In may case I went for part numbers 08000115 and 08000125 which is in the group for "'55-'62 Panhead Replica I".

Cheers,

steve

[Bigincher]

Thanks for that info, Steve. I've been living in the past in regards to STDs products, I guess...
Nice to know there are options to fixing up junker OEM heads..! If I ever need to replace my own heads, I'll keep that option in mind.

[Excalibur]

Thanks Steve, good information.
Ok, I found 4 sellers on Amazon with Manufacturer Part No.: 08000110/120 . I believe is the bare heads for 1955-62 as the title says but I'm puzzled why the description says: threaded Plummer intake!!
Surely plumber fittings finished in what, '54? I'm thinking it's a cut & paste error but it's hardly encouraging for a buyer..

A good saving if correct

[steve_wood]

The heads with part number 08000110 and 08000120 are indeed plumber intake manifold. They are part of the grooup "'48-'54 Panhead Replica w/ Plumber Intake".