Where to buy Inner Valve Springs?

[CaptMike]

I called the guy who built the rear head and he told me he didn't have any springs to call the first guy (who also Screwed up when he built the original heads 216 miles ago). Talking about Pissed. I do own a business and this is Not the Way We/I Operate.

To add insult to injury I have spent over an hour looking for a place to Buy 2 Inner Springs. Don't want a Full Set and Really Don't Want New Ones. I think the ones that failed were New.

I've searched here and on the web for "Chevy springs for a Panhead" or "Panhead Spring Specs" without any luck.

Thanks!

[Northman]

I'll see if I have any..........
Northman

[john HD]

S and S ?

john

[Cotten]

Gosh Folks,...

I thought everyone had a bucket of springs laying around.

The difficult part is sorting them out by free length until you've got enough to check for installed height spec on a pressure tester (like a bathroom scale upon the drillpress), then prepping to "clean" for stress riser inspection.

Walk in my door and they are free.

Check and prep them fast, and you are the new boss.
(Proof of citizenship required... Immigration sponsorships considered.)

....Cotten

[1950Panhead]

Use Harley, Andrews, S&S valve springs, yes you have to buy a set.
Don't use used springs unless you know the history, your asking for trouble.
Tell us who made the springs that failed.
Jerry

[CaptMike]

Use Harley, Andrews, S&S valve springs, yes you have to buy a set.
Don't use used springs unless you know the history, your asking for trouble.
Tell us who made the springs that failed.
Jerry

Richie said he'd heard of a batch (of Cheap Ass Chinese ones) that was hardened incorrectly and breaking. My First Head Guy ground the boss off the top of the lower collars (ouch) to set the clearance. This is the rear head that went about 25 miles and the intake seat moved into the intake port on one side. i.e. Trash. I found the local guy that builds cranks, heads and motors for the local shops and he built the Second head but he wouldn't use the collars that had been cut down. I'm almost positive that he put new springs in too. I called him this morning saying I'd broken the inner springs and he said "I don't have any inner springs, Call Chip (the first guy who screwed the rear head up) I'm sure he has some springs". In my opinion that was a Totally Wrong Answer/Solution. My thought is F'k that. I might Whore a part off one of them at some point but neither will work on anything I have. If I end up buying $2,000.00 worth of tools to do my own heads, I will. I've also thought about just buying some V-Twin heads... I'm Hoping that if I put this rear one back together this Damn engine/bike will settle down, run normally and just leak oil.

Who made the Springs that Failed? Good question.

Used Springs? I would think twice about used ones that looked and checked OK.

[1950Panhead]

Mike,
If two of your valve springs have failed put the rest of them in a zip lock bag and fling them towards China hard as you can.
Buy a new set of Harley, Andrews, S&S valve springs.
I have heard of folks shimming old springs to increase seat pressure (poor, broke, desperate) but I don't know what these guys were trying to do.
Jerry

[Cotten]

...I have heard of folks shimming old springs to increase seat pressure (poor, broke, desperate) but I don't know what these guys were trying to do....

Jerry!

Even brand new springs should often be shimmed, depending upon the depth of the seat and valve stem protrusion,

Pressure at installed height is just one of the parameters that must be checked when setting up spring packs.

....Cotten

[CaptMike]

Mike,
If two of your valve springs have failed put the rest of them in a zip lock bag and fling them towards China hard as you can.
Buy a new set of Harley, Andrews, S&S valve springs.
I have heard of folks shimming old springs to increase seat pressure (poor, broke, desperate) but I don't know what these guys were trying to do.
Jerry

The Front Head was Built By A Different Guy. I am 100% Sure he Used the OLD/Original Springs. His work is questionable but I think the Original Springs Are O KAY.

The Read Head Was Built By Different Guy and I am 99% Sure He Ordered NEW Springs (and I Whored the Untouched Original H-D Collars for him).

So I am pretty darn sure Only The Rear Head Has The Shity Springs or... Head Man #2 Spaced Them Wrong. IMO Two broken inner springs points to a possibility of two things. 1. The Parts Are Bad. 2.The Builder Screwed Up. (or the cam is not stock, OK 3.) At this point I haven't pulled the valves out of the head. As much of a PIA this engine has been, if the front head is OK, it will stay bolted to the front cylinder.

What I hate is to spend a $100.00 for a set of springs and use 2 of the 8. Secondly I just came from J&P and the better springs are listed as High Performance. I don't want High Performance, my heads still have bronze seats and I'd just as soon not whack them any harder than needed (with extra strong springs).

Thanks. I'll let you know how I solve the puzzle.

UPDATE. Just bought a Whole Set of springs and two more head gasket.

[CaptMike]

Just took the head apart and checked the cam stroke. The Exhaust tappet moved .313" and the Intake moved .265".

Both springs are in three pieces. The front one destroyed the valve guide seal. Checking the valves both look to have enough clearance (squish). I've never seen springs fail like these.

[RUBONE]

Don't forget the rocker arm ratio when determining total lift. And then you need to have at least an extra .030 minimum for bounce and expansion. The Panhead rockers are approx 1.6-1.
Robbie

[CaptMike]

Thanks I missed the ratio. I checked the wear pattern on the valve and it looks like there's enough "squish" left. When I get the springs I'll check it together.

The .313" x 1.6 is .500" and .265" x 1.6 is .424".

[CaptMike]

Installed new Row springs and new valve guide seals. Reinstalled the head and so far all is well after about 30 miles.

Let's see what breaks next! About 20 more miles to the next major failure.

[58flh]

HEY CAP!----THE breakage you showed is exactly where the ones I had to change-out for a cust. They looked like that in the pics. with a coil or 2 difference!----Watch where you guys are getting springs from!---THeres a whole lot of them import jobs out there that cant take the heat & pressure!---Over the winter we did 4 bikes with the same problem!--THIS is where you want to spend the extra$$$ for reliability & piece of mind!--NOT stop at every light you catch & listen & fell for loose crap supplied by a cheap imported part!--just my 2----RICHIE

[CaptMike]

In my opinion this is one to learn from. My last head guy (the final one too) put the new springs in. I have no idea where he got them and I didn't ask. When I called him and told him I'd broken the inner springs he said that he didn't have any to call the first Mo'Ron that screwed up the heads before him (that he had springs). In my business if I make a repair on your equipment and it flies apart, I want to see, analyze what happened and do my best to Make It Right. I guess I just expect too much (but I expect people to do what I would).

Be careful who does the work that you don't or can't.

Know What Parts Are Being Installed.