THROTTLE SPIRAL

[VintageTwin]

Here's the '54-up throttle and spark spiral http://www.nosparts.com/ . The re-pop ones look as good, only the re-pop spiral channel is shallower. Two rollers stacked won't fit into the channel. One roller stacked on the pin will, but the throttle action freezes.

[steph]

Why can't you make rollers with a smaller outside diameter, maybe that will solve your problem and it shouldn't be to difficult to achieve!
St?ph

[VintageTwin]

No Steph, You can't use smaller diameter rollers. The dia. of the rollers isn't the problem. It's the channel inside the spiral. The channel is not deep enough. You can fit one roller inside the spiral, but two rollers stacked is too high to allow the spiral to fit on the handlebar over the rollers.

[mbskeam]

hello, I think I see what the problem is. there should be only 1 roller that is
higher than the handle bar surface , the other roller rides in the slot in the
handle bar. the roller are to thick?or there is not a flat cut on the plunger that
slides in the bar. the flat would be cut down so as to allow the 1st roller not to
stick up any higher than the bars surface. I can see this in my head but writing it a lot harder. hope this helps. your pic of the spiral looks like mine.
hey, are VT and Plumber both you,VT here..... Plumber on the other sight ? I just seem to see the same long line of info under both posting names.

I can pull off a spiral and take pic if you like.
ps I had to turn my own plugers as none wold seem to fit the v-twin bars . and this was over 10 years ago, so that tells you how long this problem has been going on for , I say we hunt them down and FLOGG THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mbskeam

[VintageTwin]

Oh yeah. Mbskeam. You da' guy peeled your spiral and ground-out the channels? Plumber/V-twin, same dude, different computers. I tried to follow what you said. Pix help big time. You're right about the rollers. One stays down in the handlebar slot, the top one goes along for a ride inside the channel of the spiral. OK so far. The problem as I see it, is that the i.d of the re-pop spiral is OK. It fits on the OE bars without the two rollers stacked. It's when you stack that second roller, that the top roller strikes the bottom of the channel. So if you could take a "magic", long, skinny finger and stick it into the bottom of the channel, you would want to wipe some metal from the bottom of the channel on your way out.
I ordered a set of '54-59 bare bars from V-Twin yesterday. I have old OE plungers and inner coils and control wires. The bars look "dresser" from the pix in the catalog. I can't live with "dresser" and Diane said I could send them back, if so. I remember you said that your plungers wouldn't work, that you had to turn them down. Colony has those plungers. To help unravel this, I need to ask you a specific question: Were you're plungers from Colony? Because we can narrow down where the problems are, if any, with todays product. V-Twin has both warehouses fully stocked with these '54-59 one-piece w/ center-sleeve handlebars and I'll have mine by next Wednesday and I will put them to the Vintage Twin test replete w/ stunning close-ups.
Thanks for the help.
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Have you seen the pilgims around Cookies wagon in the evenings? Forelorn look in their eyes; empty plates held up, trail beat, looking to Cookie for food and moral support. It's a sad state. Wagon masters on the east coast are sending willing folks out on the trail, because the money just keeps pouring into their operation, but we're losing them out there in the wilderness at a rapid rate. Some just pitch tents where their wagons failed. Forks and frames are being used as funiture. Harlan's wagon is stuck up to the axle-trees in adobe mud. It ain't pretty.... seeing a pioneer turned into a sod-buster. - Francis Parkman "Oregon Trail", 1857

[mbskeam]

hello. I had to make from bar stock on a lathe. because when I got the bars it did not have any guts. old fat oem and smaller newer oem plungers did not fit. The small OD ones fit, but to loose and caused the binding you write about. I dont know if the colony parts fit , as I have not messed with them. ok,
now if I recall the plunger was made about .010 smaller than the ID of the bars. if your plugers are looser than this that should be fixed first. if ok then I would look at the stack height of the rollers and make sure pin is tight fit in plunger , and does not stick up higher than top roller. In your case the top roller might be to thick . put it in the spiral groove it should move in slot freely from end to end, it should not stick up taller than the groove. you do have a mike or dail calipors . these make things much nicer to figure this stuff out. If to tall then file it thiner. This is what I had to do to mine to work.
and yes last summer while stoping to get gas the outer sleeve came off the inner part ( bad spot welds) , rode to work and fixed it. I drilled out the 3 points 1/8 at the bad welds. and tiged them back up. no problem sine. I will be working on bike tomorrow I'll pull off spiral and measure and get photos. now if that lock tight will give it up on the screw that holds every thing togethor
mbskeam

[VintageTwin]

Good. This site makes it easy to refer to what someone wrote while writning a response. So, let me check out what you said against what I know. My parts are all old OE. The pin. Yes, the pin is shorter than the two rollers stacked. It looks as thought the top of the pin is recessed below the top of the roller (wheel), by about 1/2 as deep as the roller itself. In un-practiced theory, if I surface-ground the top roller (wheel) to 1/2 it's height, then the top of the roller would be about even height with the pin. At this point maybe the top roller would then slide into the channel. Never thought about this as a fix. I don't have the re-pop spiral anymore, but I got an email from JW @ V-Twin. He said the guy they have making the fixes right now is not having an easy go of it, and it makes me think that thinning the top roller might not be the fix or JW would have told me. It would kill me have to order a plunger from Colony? (since I have two extra OEM's on hand already), and another bad spiral to try and match up the "constants" of the individual components (Colony being a fixed constant, because anything Roger makes and skin packs is consistently perfect). What would be good, is if we could say, well, go buy the V-Twin handlebars, but you need to use the Colony plungers, and you need to do this or that to the rollers to allow the shallow channeled re-pop spirals to fit on the h. bars. What I can do though is use my OE plungers and KNOW that Colony's plungers are the exact diameter as OE. Based on that (unproven as of yet) trust of Colony's parts overall, you could say that the OE and Colony plungers are exactly the same and go on from there. I have a mic and calipers. I heard you about the spot welds coming apart on the inner sleeve. That is one incodent. Mine was different. My h. bars were made with the reduced end of the h.bar end too short. So when I tightened the big end screw into the h.bar, the shank of the h. bar wasn't long enough so the screw never seated on the h.bar end. Turning the twist grip would back the big screw out and then the entire spiral would come off. These were old '90-'91 re-pop h. bars. Dresser jobs. Exactly what I'm scared of geting next week. They looked "dresser" in the catalog pix, so I'll see. I'm not riding with those style bars. It seems someone also said that the slot in the handlebar needs to be lengthened too, as the gas feed won't move the carb butterfly to wide open. I'll check with a dial indicator for the 0.010" of clearance between the i.d. of the bar and o.d. of the plunger first on my OE buckhorns, then on the re-pops when they get here. Thanks.

[VintageTwin]

see below.

[VintageTwin]

Pix tomorrow morning. If the OE spirals fit, and I'm sure they will from the way these bars are packaged. I will post pix of the OE Speedster, the V-Twin Speedster and OE Buckhorn. I like buckhorn for rigid, but I can ride with speedster.

[mbskeam]

hello, got some dia.
PLUNGER: .700 OD step in plunger .100 DP
ROLLERS: .125 THK .375 OD .250 ID
PIN: .248 OD .562 LG


HANDLE BARS: .710 ID .830 OD .060 WALL THICKNESS


SPIRALS: .840 ID 1.155 OD GROOVE: .380 WIDE .110 DEEP


when I add up stack hieght of rollers I get around .090 that sticks up taller than the handle bars, so if groove is .110 dp then I would have .020 clearance at the top of the roller to the spirals. get out the flat file and go to town.

[mbskeam]

hello, 2 more pics

[VintageTwin]

Good work. Those are re-pop plungers right? I'll print out your dims. and post my OE plunger dims. and the re-pop handlebar dims. to match yours.

[JW]

Here's JW's email. You can see that we're all in the same boat. Since you and I have more time to figure this out, me since I'm directly working on a machine, maybe we can find a fix through performing certain steps using certain components. This is our friend and he could get in a pickle for writing this, so if anyone slams him, this post will disappear. Most definitely.

hey Kirk let's see? I know the hbars are assembled here in but that doesn't mean the guy fits the spirals to good, I'd plan on having to do the work . I can check on the short block* . (*here he is talking about the Knuckle motors)???? I see long blocks come in all the time.? Here in NY the case # is all you need to register the bike, that year will come with a transferable title. sign the back and hand write a bill of sale and it's sold. Take the old regi., proof of insurance to DMV? get a regi and a plate and a 10 day temp. inspection. Then you just buy an inspection stcker.? It's worth it to build an old bike to buy a good case set w/ good #'s? or God help you trying to register your home built in NY.If you've got good ( original ) ?cases and #'s can't you just do the same thing in CA ?
??? Maybe your giving DMV Too much info.?
???? Well good luck and I could probably regi that bike for you ( in your name )?with only paper work. You'll have NY plates.

[mbskeam]

hello, no the plugers are HOME MADE the oem did not fit; to loose ,I'm wondering about the sizes of the after market stuff. maybe this will help fix up this issue. I dont know if I said but my handle bars are after market not oem
mbskeam

[VintageTwin]

But you made yours work? OK. Well, your info is valuable. I will be fitting OE plungers in pop-bars. Colony's will be the same o.d as OE. If the OE fit and the spirals seat on the end of the bar, we are fixed as far as the pligrim market. I'll fit what I have and measure the push and pull length against OE cable action. May take a couple days, working on the fork now.