Frame question

[luske74]

hi there

im working on my boss´s bike (48pan-EL i think) but we cant get an oilbag that fit the frame ?? im then told that the frame is an shovel-frame (69-) but we tried several oiltanks and not one of em fit?? how do i tell which year frame it is?its got suspension rear and discbrake rear and a boxsection swinger? my bet is on an earlyshovel but not sure

any links are helpful and welcome

Luske74

[suicideshovel65]

Hi,

Check the right hand side of the top motor mount and you should see a number-letter combination stamped there. The number corresponds to the year, and the letter to the month of manufacture. eg a frame produced in June, 1966 would have a "6F" stamped there.
I'm reasonably certain this continued on for at least the 1966-69 models, however I'm not sure for how long this practice was continued.
The presence of a box-section swingarm unless added by the owner would point to a later model frame however, and I'm unsure of how to identify them unless there is a VIN stamped on the frame near the neck section perhaps?

You can check: http://www.cyclemanual.com/faq.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or http://www.wwwildcats.com/harley_vin.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or run a search on the internet for more info.

Hope this helps,

Si

[luske74]

hey thanks there
will check the motormount later today
but the frame VIN is matching the engines VIN ?? (EL48)
it should then be a 61CI ? but its a 74CI ?? does later barrels fit to make a 61 to 74 ???
it looks to be built from several bikes from different years

Luske74

[mbskeam]

hello,

48 only had #s on case, that is the vin # that should be on a title. but it sounds like you have a 70 and latter frame with vin #.
harley did not put vin #s on frames until 69 or 70 I think.
yep it might be a bit o that and a piece of this but if it runs ride the hell out of it.
dont later shovells take a square oil tank,? any body
so to answer your ? the engine and frame #s should not match if they do, well......
mbskeam

[pzokes]

Are you trying to fit a Shovel square oil bag or a Pan horseshoe oilbag? The 1958-64 Pan frames drop 2" more than a Shovel in the oil bag area and only a horseshoe tank will fit. All of the swingarms interchange.

[suicideshovel65]

The later frames would have a VIN as Mbskeam has said, however the fact that this one matches the earlier engine numbers means it would have been added later to the frame. If this is the only VIN on the frame then I would suggest that it points to the frame being an aftermarket one, or a pre-frame VIN frame that has had the numbers added.
Check the frame at the seat section and see whether it drops or not as Pzokes said.
Otherwise, what areas are you having difficulty with fitment? Does it appear as though there are tabs missing, or are there clearance issues?
As for what is need to take a 61" EL motor up to 74" I'm not sure.

Cheers,

Si

[suicideshovel65]

Oh and Pzokes - good to see you over from the HTT board - hope you can drop by more often as I always enjoy reading your posts over there.

Cheers,

[luske74]

thanks for the replies fellas

im pretty sure that its a original HD pre-VIN frame with the engines VIN stamped but i think its newer than the enginecases (el48) but that probably due to the stupid registrationcosts we have in denmark (the older,the cheaper). and the problem with the oil (horseshoe) tank is its too low at the top , leaves a q2 inch gap between the upperframerails/seat and the tank and at the bottom it hits the clutcharm

Luske74

[sleeper]

Then as Simon said, there will be "Date Codes" on the Right (carb) side of the top motor mount. Under much paint. If it's a real HD frame..

[fourthgear]

The square oil bag started with the first year of electric start motors , 1965 . The swing arms means nothing like they have said , you can interchange them from 58 to 84. If you have a stock frame there will be casting numbers where the swing arm pivot shaft is , on the outside of the casting ( 58-77403) something like that . It is not exact but it will put you in the range of years if you can't see the number code at upper motor mount. The mounting of both tanks are very different , elect. starts have a tab to mount a double stud rubber grommet for mounting. I'm not sure when or if they quit drilling and taping the swing arm mounting tabs for the mounting of the horse shoe oil bag , but if they are there it may be a good indicator of what tank goes in there.

[Luske74]

hmm wierd

btw 4thgear is the number u quoted ( 58-77403) a direct indicator to the year of the frame , i mean it start with 58 so the frame are from 58?? or is it not so easy?
oh , and i found a B stamped in the headstockcasting does that tell u anything?? have checked the upper motormount but it have been painted just before tha boss got it , so we did not want to attack it with the anglegrindermounted wirebrush ;D

oh is the bore the only difference in 61CI to 74CI motahs ? or is it stroke as well?

Luske74

[fourthgear]

luske74
The casting numbers do not mean an exact year but you will get a round about year . It is xxxxxx- 58 or what ever , I had it back wards , like me I had to look at mine last night . The last number is the year the casting was made as someone has said in another post , they are not exact because they could have made a batch of the castings and could have used them for years . In the same sense it might get you close . The casting I'm talking about is where the frame tubes are attached with a casting where the swing arm attached , if the frame is stock it will have numbers cast into it .
I believe the diff. is in the fly wheels or stroke , The 61 has smaller wheels . I'm sure someone will correct me if I be straying .Casting Numbers

[FlatHeadSix]

all those casting numbers won't really pin down much of anything other than letting you know that its a genuine H-D part and was made in some general era. The year code in the casting number is usually the first year that the pattern was put into production, not necessarily the year it was actually made. If the factory did not change the design or junk the pattern they continued using the same casting number year after year until a major design change or a new and improved version of the part dictated a new pattern for the casting.
Most of the Duo-Glides will all have that "-58" in the cast and forged sections joining the frame tubes because it was a complete redesign from the rigids.

[sleeper]

That's why the date codes are important. They do change & can pinpoint a date made more than the #'s in the forged castings..

& date codes are hand stamped in.

[fourthgear]

He is trying to find what oil tank he can use and they might have changed the casting for the electric start , since it would be different ,but maybe not . If he has a custom frame it might be a manufactures oil tank only , that he can use . Heres a new pole , what year is your bike and what casting numbers are on your frame? I'm curious to know what comes up. When did they quit drilling and tapping the mounting holes for the Horse shoe oil tank / battery tray ?