Rebuild engine from boxes

[nifty]

Exc,

re "The padlock bracket was a missing part of the puzzle, thanks for that snippet re "welded on".
I'm hoping to fabricate the bracket and weld it on when I repair/weld the steering stops."

Many years ago I very carefully cut through the welds and removed a padlock bracket from a 1974 FLH tree so I could use it in a 58 project, saved the bracket, made you a tracing to simplify your resurrection.

Nifty

[Excalibur]

Nifty, thankyou so much. That saves quite a bit of headscratching. Super cool.

Made the swingarm wedge tool and it worked perfect. It now just needs a tiny bit of TIG weld where the metal was previously squashed thin.

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New +.030 breather gear valve arrived couple days back. Looks very well made. Note reads upgraded scavenging but that might be to do with primary.

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Re belt drive. Current thought is to get this outrigger support and proceed as though belt will fit. If it doesn't I'll buy a shorter belt. (Or I suppose I could mount the tensioner bearing on a new bracket?)

oot.JPG

Valves: I have a bent front exhaust with a crack in that guide. Also intake valve has some impact marks on its' seating area. Comparing intake stem measurements, there's .0015 difference between the two. Studying the manual and parts catalog it looks as though...
In Late 1981 valves changed to 18075-81 and stem seals fitted. The clearance were significantly less too. Did HD increase stem size for 18075-81 and that's how the clearance was reduced?
Similar query with exhaust valve 18086-81?

Tomorrow I'll knock the cracked exhaust guide out and measure it up for OS. I have 4 original valve stem seals here which I picked up some years ago.

Stripped the calipers. Very pleased to see in better order than expected. Not seized at all. Rubber boots are damaged so these get kitted. One bleed screw has been adapted with a steel insert. Possibly the same guy that tightend the axle, stripped the thread

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The cylinder jugs were delivered to my work today. They've been held up 2 weeks because of level four C19 lockdown madness. Yesterday I read a news article about a fire at the Courier company, inside a 40ft container. Apparently a forklift was ablaze... Lucky my stuff was elsewhere.

Re master cylinder. Will fit it up and see if I can it to successfully bleed and give a reasonable lever feel.. Speculation elsewhere is the 9/16" cylinders are for single caliper brakes. Gunna test that theory.

[RooDog]

The thing about bleeding the front calipers is that the bleeder screws need never be touched. They do not need to be opened. The air bubbles will rise up and out through the master cylinder. Gravity is at work there. It is your friend, and it is the law....
....RooDog....

[Mongrel505558]

Re belt drive. Current thought is to get this outrigger support and proceed as though belt will fit. If it doesn't I'll buy a shorter belt. (Or I suppose I could mount the tensioner bearing on a new bracket?)
oot.JPG

That outboard mainshaft bearing support should fit. It puts the bearing in the same location as a cast inner primary cover does.

[nifty]

Exc,
re belt: without inner primary there is not much to hang a bracket on for roller, roller needs to stay "square" to belt, so needs substantial mount. given what you have I would seriously consider sleeving hacked inner primary, or hacking another inner primary. If you did find a shorter belt, you would still need an adjuster kit to pull trans back. Or were you thinking the 5 trans studs alone would prevent trans moving around?

re front brakes: Its not speculation, 9/16" is for modern single caliper. However, I have successfully retrofitted a 14mm MC (from memory down from 16mm) on dual ATE 38mm single piston calipers (early BMW R90S). With new modern hoses it now has superbike "feel" brake, i.e. one finger pulls lever in a long way, I can now howl front tyre at highway speeds, and it stops on a dime. Running out of lever travel and flexing/cracking calipers are greatest concerns, and of course the mechanic/rider accepts all risk.

re valves: 1.
H-D changed to special OD stems so their pre-existing reamers produced the close spec clearance required with hard stems, iron guides & seals. So long as you achieve correct clearance & internal finish, valve stem size is of no consequence.

2. If you "knock the cracked exhaust guide out" chances are good you will further damage head by taking out a lot of ally with guide. Safest to carefully machine off top off guide, heat, remove guide from top (into port)

Nifty

[Excalibur]

Thanks guys, great comments.

I picked up a ratty, used belt of 3 teeth less. It's 141T, original 144T. Hopefully it'll be good enough to test out the idea. For an adjuster, I was thinking of making something like this..

ff4.jpg

Brakes: that's encouraging a 9/16 master is known to work. And a Shovel definitely needs more braking power!
Also will try again to get DOT5. Repco actually list it as available.

Valves: I was able to find info on Shovel '78-on valves on Kibblewhite site and elsewhere. From '81 the stems were bigger. Known as large stem or fat stem. I have some of each, hence the confusion. I will order these direct from Kibblewhite along with any guide/s.
Nifty, great suggestion to waste the top off the guide and drift into port. I thought perhaps drill part way through to weaken the interference fit as well.
I like the basic idea of oversize stems so basically an existing guide could be reamed to the bigger size. No drifting guides in/out and opening up a potential can of worms. Often thought OS stem is so ideal.

Cleaned the 5/8" UNF threads up. They'd had a real hard time at some stage. When I popped the tops of the legs, I found wrist pins as preload spacers.

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Little haul from my trip today... most for Shovel project.

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Question re drive sprocket. Bike has lots of different year parts on it, obviously built out of bits.. '71-'84 parts catalog shows 2 part numbers 35212-73 vs 33337-83 with the latter applying from '80. What's the difference between these? Do they both fit anyway? Want to order it right first time.
Notes: The trans housing dated from '77 but that's no guarantee of anything. Also the countershaft gear itself needs replacing at some later stage, so just another thing to beer in mind..

[nifty]

Exc,
re belt: that's the type of adjuster you need

re 23T: have you counted teeth of belt drive pulleys yet so you know what sprocket is best? Also what's on rear wheel?

re sprocket: I don't supposed you checked rear sprocket alignment before you tore into it?

the -73 part number is early style i.e. recessed and locked by tabwasher
the -83 part number is late style i.e. plain plate sprocket, drilled & tapped for late nut retainer, slightly thicker at splines
Both splines are identical and to a limited degree they can be interchanged, various factory & AM spacing washers are available for clearance/alignment, but there is not a lot to play with before you run out of thread for nut.
Given what is so far known I would play safe and go for the early style sprocket

re valve guide: drilling to collapse is also a good idea, I would at least also have a real close look at the other guide in front head, lots of hammering went on there before front piston disintegrated.

Nifty

[Excalibur]

Nifty, thanks for the thoughts.

Re Sprocket.
Overall ratio is 3.3 : 1
Engine: 47T
Clutch: 76T
Drive spr: 25T
Wheel: 51T

Am reading stock FX is 24 > 37, 23 > 51
so 3.41 : 1

OK, Mmmm. I better try the 25T first. Might be alright.

Sprocket alignment is to be checked.

Got the wheels cleaned and tidied up. Spokes look real nice, obviously a re-lace job..
A problem is the disc or sprocket won't pull off. With bolts out, both will rotate by hand but try to pull off and it tightens up. Hub is like it's swaged bigger, enough to get real tight. These might just stay on. Will freshen bolts up which were loose.

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wh.jpg

[nifty]

Exc,
While you are there
Maybe instead of just polishing the chrome you should clean & check wheel bearings and at least re-grease, I would also check their adjustment. I don't know about you, but when I'm having a good old time through my favourite twisties, I don't want to be completely ignorant of their condition, or just hoping the bearings and brakes are good...
If disc and sprocket won't come off there is definitely something wrong with rear hub, you already know what I think...
For a start, if rear disc has been run loose it may no longer run true when tightened
Clamping faces of hub, disc & sprocket need to be paint-free, clean and flat, the friction between these parts makes them work, the bolts just clamp them together.
Looks like front discs have late style ID, are there spacer rings in there to centre on hub?
And you already know the PO was clueless
Nifty

[Excalibur]

Nifty, thanks for the tips. The talk helps me think stuff through, often in a direction I may not have thoroughly pursued.

Agreed, bearings get a repack, inspection and clearance check. Will do once seals get here. Original seals are worn and were pushed too far in.
Looked up the clearance: .004" - .018". Always thought it was a wide variation in spec. What does experience show?

When I fit the speedo drive adaptor, then will be a good time to sleeve front disc spigots. I can make one side wide enough to have a notch for drive tang.

So today's findings. The rear disc has a 1/8" 3mm saucer shape to it plus pads have worn into it. It measures 10" OD.
'71 - '84 Parts book shows 41086-72B, 41791-79A or 41813-79. Given all the mismatch of parts on this bike I'm confused about which year wheel it is and which disc it should have. Is there anything I should know?
Also I read talk about zinc disc rotors not being suitable for sintered pads. My caliper is a Brembo which adds another layer of complexity if I get a rotor that needs non-sintered.

My crankpin thrust washers turned up. I was surprised they were brass not bronze as was advertised. See anything wrong with these? Old ones alongside for compare.

tw.jpg

[nifty]

Exc,
I set the taper roller wheel bearings up clean & dry, no seals, axle & dummy spacers torqued to spec, with one end of axle in soft jaws of big vise, just perceptible shake at rim (feel), sometimes you might get lucky with an OE or AM cone spacer, but usually have to make my own custom spacers between bearings. Call me fussy.

The PO Brembo bracket probably flexed enough to conform to dished disc.

10" disc is all you need on rear from point of view of brake efficiency, but they limit availability of decent caliper bracket & calipers.
Going up in dia to late shov-evo 11.5" discs opens up options.
Have you got the rear brake assy from dead 90's sportster?

Sintered pads on rear is for racing and rapidly wearing out discs (dealer rubbing hands gleefully) , plus of course BSing in pub.
When those type Brembo calipers were made there were no sintered pads.
My improved R90S does everything with boring normal stock pads, on stock stainless discs.
Also you don't need a huge rear caliper, might horrify some people, but a lot of late Jap dirt bikes have some really good lightweight rear calipers, brackets & discs.

There are several OE disc type rear hubs with different mounting flange positions, plus who knows what has happened in AM.
I have yet to determine from dimensions which hub is which part number, good luck.

There are several grades of "brass" all alloys of copper & zinc.
There are many grades of "bronze" some are alloys of copper & tin, others are different alloys of copper and other metals, chemical additives.
Without proper scientific metal analysis, no-one can tell for sure by looking.
I do agree that the new washers should be treated with suspicion. The old ones are similar colour to every OE bronze washers I have ever removed, replaced, seen.
Early H-D flywheel thrust washers were steel, Ducati use hardened steel washer, many V-twins run rods against wheels without washers. In reality, washers punched from "brass" sheet may well be ok as Shovel flywheel thrusts, but to find out, I don't want to risk a motor doing R&D for some parts seller.

Nifty

[Excalibur]

Nifty, thanks.

Good to know what's worked for you re bearing clearance. I do my own spacers too.

One of the Brembo pads was worn tapered. It might be because of dish. Will be reviewing mount if I end up using it.

Yes, I found the Sportster wheel, pads and bracket. The disc was worn out (front disc worn as well). The bracket won't fit.
So am back to looking at the 10" disc. Should be one of these: 41791-79A, 41813-79, 41814-76A
Hoping to get Harley Daves tomorrow with disc in hand looking for a match or ID.
Need a look at those late Jap dirtbike calipers.

The color of the yellow brass washers says to me there's not much copper content. Pondering what way to go.

The short 11"? shocks came with the bike. The longer 12.5" ones I had stored. Information on correct length is mixed and conflicting. Which length is stock?
Forks are over stock length so would this affect rear shock choice??
Am thinking of Progressive Suspension shocks. I have them on my Pan. They work well, not firm like OEM Pan/Shovel. Or is there something better?

sss.jpg

[RooDog]

Re: Shocks.....
I have used both premium Progressive, and Konis. (and both have been obsoleted, no longer serviced). Am currently using OEM 12" Dynaglide from a 2008 model. The premium version with the smoothly cast aluminum top eye. They are so smooth riding that it's like there is nothing back there.
This is what the shocks look like:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293806552684?e ... SwSG5fm260
They are available with full covers, or exposed springs, and in 12, or 13 inch length, you should use the 12" with your rectangular disc brake swing arm....

DSC02446.JPG

[George Greer]

See if you might be able to get a set of 08 Dyna shocks like the ones that I have on my pan

RooDog suggested that I try and get a set, and I did and not looked back, RooDog, again thank you for the tip.

I have them adjusted to the middle position and the bike rides good with that setting

Just a thought

George

[Excalibur]

Thanks for the pics. Some of those Dyna shocks would do nicely.
Am hearing 12" is stock.
(As a side note, what are my pictured shocks really off or what would they suit)?

I think I've figured out the rear disc confusion.
41791-79A 11.5", fits rear '81, '82. '83 FXE
41813-79 & 41806-72B, 10", Fits FL, FX Rear 1973 -1980, FL Front 1972 - 1984 Replaces HD# 41813-79 Replaces HD# 41807-73 when used in conjunction with 41814-76 disc spacer.
Oh, and my disc has a 2" center.

Was offered this used 11.5" for $80...

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Stripped the paint off. Was easier than the crankcases.

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...and I made another bolt for the caliper, fitted.. From a 10mm capscrew because the shank needed to be 9mm.

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