Rebuild engine from boxes

[Excalibur]

Sorry about the axle. I can get you the number for that axle if you want it.

22-t gearing is for the heavy Electraglide, 23 for the lighter FX, which would be OK for city, or hilly country roads, but I have always run a 24 even as far back at the 1970s on my bobber/chopper.... I don't like buzzing the engine....
....RD....

RooDog, yes OK, get the number please.

Without riding the bike yet, I can't reasonably see why I'd want 25T. If belt drive ratio turns out to be stock, I'll probably go with 23T~24T given the back country roads I'm mostly riding. Keeping off main highways and seldom above speed limit these days.

Today I got the sprocket off. It had no locktab (& no L key). Worse though is there's a small piece of the spline broken away where the slim seal fits. See pic..

MC2.jpg

More issues. Speedo drive gear crack and another smaller crack about 180°. It has been welded to shaft. Might be the only thing that's holding it.
Need to study, I see some replacements are fiber gear!!??

MC3.jpg

Master cylinder am planning to use.. What year is it?. Needing to know for kit ordering.

mc.jpg

[RooDog]

This is the axle I'm using.
The axle should be VT No 44-0203, OEM No: 43867-81


From a catalog:
Measurements
Bearing Surface: 10-5/8" Surface w/o Thread: 9-7/8"" Overall Length: 12-7/8"
Outer Diameter: 3/4" Threads per Inch: 20

The entire center bearing surface is 3/4" so that the wheel hub's bearing centers don't matter, and will take most any Harley Shovelhead disc brake wheel with end spacers as needed to center the wheel.....

I would also recommend a front wheel speedo drive, to avoid trying to get the tranny speedo drive working.... That way the rear sprocket ratios won't affect the speedometer's reading....

....RooDog....

[Mongrel505558]

"Drive sprocket/output gear rocks around a fair bit on the shaft. Suspiciously looks like it'll need a rebuild."


What year is the transmission? If early 77 or earlier you'll probably have to have the main drive gear outer bearing raced line honed to size for oversized rollers, if not replaced and lined honed for std. 0.1250" bearings. If late 77 there's a caged bearing instead of the 44 individual rollers. Less work to replace. Either way, if the main drive gear is sloppy it's probably a time for a rebuild. Not having good support for the mainshaft on that side id probably not too good for the mainshaft ball bearing, or anything else, for that matter.

Jim

[nifty]

"Could I run an outrigger bearing, do away with the inner primary?? Slide the gearbox back on the adjustment to get belt tensioned, shorten rear chain etc...?"

Doubtful you will be able to properly adjust existing belt by deleting hacked inner cover with roller & just sliding gearbox backwards, probably run out of slot well before belt run-able.

I like Roodog's rear axle adjusters

With that bent axle I would be looking real hard at trees too, often twisted.

Good man with a press would straighten that front axle

Nifty

[Excalibur]

This is the axle I'm using.
The axle should be VT No 44-0203, OEM No: 43867-81

I would also recommend a front wheel speedo drive, to avoid trying to get the tranny speedo drive working.... That way the rear sprocket ratios won't affect the speedometer's reading....

RooDog, thanks. I searched for that axle part number and all the pics I found show an axle that is wasted down. Same thing with a search for the OEM number.
So, it appears my left leg axle hole has been bored out, consequently the stock axle won't fit.
I had another thought to solve it. I have a FXR rear axle that is 3/4". All I need do is spin the head down and interference fit a sleeve.
Pic shows bent axle plus the FXR donor...

axx.jpg

I like the front wheel speedo drive idea and I have one. It's the right axle size. Looks new. What are the chances of it being some sort of compatible ratio? Wheel is 19". Easy enough to make an adaptor to drive the tang. I'd need a speedo cable plus whatever clock. Looks like at least some are 2:1 ratio? The numbers printed on it do not "Google".

sdd.jpg

I checked trans numbers. According to what I found it is 1975.

nnn.jpg

Found alternator cover for belt drive..

bd.jpg

Nifty, gearbox does hit swingarm with half inch of adjustment to go so might be stuck with using tensioner, otherwise I'd need a shorter belt or bigger pulley to go that way.
Any thoughts on how to remedy the loose inner primary bearing?

Good man with a press would straighten that front axle

I wouldn't feel safe using it. The axle is poorly made. The thread is ripped like a blunt die was used to cut it. There's no tommy-bar hole and there's a ripple where one bearing sits. In addition there's no guarantee this was ever made from the right grade of steel in the first instance. Safer to bin it..

Am appreciating thoughts and comments. Thanks.

[RooDog]

One end of the axle fits the right fork slider with the clamp, no problems there, correct? The threaded end goes through the slider with the hole, again, no problem, just make up a sleeve to reduce the hole to the axle size, but leave it loose enough to be removable to service the lower leg, The wheel bearing outer spacers should butt up against the slider to hold everything together.....
....RooDog....

PS: I don't know why the pic are sideways, they were right side up when I posted them......

DSC03147.JPG

DSC03146.JPG

[nifty]

Excalibur,

Now that you describe the full condition of front axle, use it as a drift/punch.

Given everything you have discovered so far...

Gearbox could have any variation of internal parts, in any condition. From the previously noted condition of high gear sleeve movement relative to shaft... you know you need a gearbox re-build.

If axle hole has been bored out by PO, chances are real good that hole is no longer "square" to fork tubes. If so, you will have on-going fork function problems with "stiction" between tubes & legs, bike will handle poorly. (Legs may already be worn out due to misalignment)

Assume nothing and proceed to very carefully examine everything.

Nifty

[nifty]

Excalibur,

Outrigger bearing bore can be sleeved, but usually uneconomical to do so.
The cut down inner primary provides mount for roller, but by being cut it has lost all its resistance to bending, so is now useless to align engine to trans and no provision for elec start. You state there is damage at gear box bearing and outrigger bearing and clutch bearing, you want to ditch roller so need shorter belt, as I see it there is no simple "cheap fix". You have to decide if you really want an open 3" belt, or something else, either way, unless you want to do your own on-going experimenting and parts breaking, you need a complete proven package. Only you can spend your money wisely.

Nifty

[Excalibur]

RooDog, thanks for the great pics, they help a lot. It's clear how it's set up now.
I studied my speedo drive and tested it. It turns out it mounts on the left. It needs to so the cable rotates in the correct direction. The numbers printed on the case are the ratio. It's 1 : 2.625
In addition I was able to find this HDforum post:
If your wheel is 19 in you should be using a 67127-84A this ratio is 2.625 : 1
Haven't found which speedo is compatible yet??

Nifty, my thoughts exactly re gearbox. Signs are ominous.
Will recheck the forks with your thoughts in mind. It's clear this bike has been thrown together from leftovers then had a mean old beating.
Pondering the belt/inner primary situation.

I opened up the spin-on filter. Check it out..

ff.jpg

ff1.jpg

Jim picked it. Looks like cracks in guide.

cr.jpg

Heads will survive. Rockers are missing 2 spacer, lost by PO.

he.jpg

I need an exhaust valve and at least one exhaust guide. Liking Kibblewhite stuff. Studying and there's a lot to take in. HD manual says clearances changed for stem seals. Oh, only my intakes had seals. Head casting mark -82.

The master cylinder pic I put up earlier is late, the likes of '02. Newer than I thought. Has 9/16" stamping.

[RooDog]

Ex Cal...
I use a right hand speedo drive, as previously pictured, 2:1, on a 19" wheel, a 16" uses the same drive, on my two bikes. One uses an OEM eBay Nippon Seiki speedo, form a 1990s FLST, I believe, and seems to work fine. The other uses an older 1970s Smiths, 3 3/8 speedo, also dash mounted, but with an adapter ring. Both are seem to work fine.
2.625: 1 , I believe, is for a 21" wheel which has a different roll out compared to the 19 &16 inch wheels. Right or left mount matters not as long as the cable exits from the bottom rear, but the wheel spacers will be differently arranged, and this can be frustrating trying to center the wheel....
....RooDog....

DSC02354.JPG

DSC03275.JPG

[Excalibur]

RooDog, thanks for the great pics. That's awesome.
At least some of the info I've found points to a 2.625 drive being used on FXR and XL 84> with #67127-84A. I think the speedometer head will be 2:1 and the different ratio drives suit the differences in wheel sizes using the same clock. There's a lot of confusing and conflicting info out there. I think I'll fit it up and see what I got. I have a FXR speedo and couple of others. It's a while off before this needs to go, so there's time. Great to have options.

On the brake master cylinder. I see Shovelhead diameter is 3/4" so 9/16" might be too small. I understand the dynamics of using smaller diameter MC means it can exert more pressure but I wonder if it will physically run out of lever travel.

[RooDog]

ExCal....
Those speedo parts are easy enough to change, so your plan is viable....

I have had great success going from a 3/4 to a 5/8 MC with both a JayBrake single 4 piston caliper on my Panny, and dual 4 piston GMAs on my Big Red Evo, and not run outta lever travel. About a 9/16, I don't know. I also have an 11/16 MC, but since the 5/8s worked so well, I never tried it....
....RooDog....

[Speeding Big Twin]

The master cylinder pic I put up earlier is late, the likes of '02. Newer than I thought. Has 9/16" stamping.

It looks like the one on my 99FXST which I bought new. Several pieces including the MC have -96 part numbers in my 99 catalog. I don’t know if there were any changes after that.
Eric

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[Mongrel505558]

It looks like the one on my 99FXST which I bought new. Several pieces including the MC have -96 part numbers in my 99 catalog. I don’t know if there were any changes after that.
Eric


It looks just like the one on my 2000 FXWG, too.

[RooDog]

Is there a question there?
Harley front master cylinders, and matching handlebar controls & levers fall into year groups:
1972-81,
1982-95,
and 1996 -06,
Except for a few particulars, most parts are interchangeable within each year group.....
....RooDog....