Rebuild engine from boxes
Requesting advice
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Yes, the front brake light switch screws into the housing. They didn't work well when new, and now with only AM parts available, it's a crap shoot. Another turd from the MoCo.
I would upgrade to 1982-95 handlebar controls with better switches, and also use the 5/8" bore maser cylinder from those years, all since this is not a restoration, why not improve on what parts that are easily improved upon....
....RooDog....
I would upgrade to 1982-95 handlebar controls with better switches, and also use the 5/8" bore maser cylinder from those years, all since this is not a restoration, why not improve on what parts that are easily improved upon....
....RooDog....
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Exc,
Brake switch: I second Roodog, the 70’s small micro-switches for front brake were always unreliable and often a PITA to remove, do yourself a favour and Tee in a hydraulic switch. Later switchgear etc is also a good rider option. You might find a re-useable hose fitting to shorten long hose or a good brake shop should be able to crimp one on, but new hose might be cheaper, or scrounge a good used one.
Shovel alternator: Without very careful checking/testing, just looking at used parts, who knows what some bare alternator stators or rotors are? But its probably a reasonable bet that charging system was working with small battery before blow up. If you are leaving it kick only I would use what was on it & check charge rate once running. If you are running LEDs there will be more than enough watts to run small battery with Dyna S mechanical advance ignition. Me, I’d leave points or spend a few more bucks and go electronic advance, single fire and VOES for a real transformation.
Cam Cover: If bushes and everything else good on replacement cover, and it slips on nicely when you assemble engine, use it, saves removing bushes & drilling/cleaning shrapnel, if its old oil stain, try aircraft paint stripper (or “good” automotive non caustic stripper). But if it doesn’t slip nicely onto your re-built lower end… you are back where you started, its your roll of the dice.
Me, I’d use original cover, de-bush, drill, clean, re-bush and line ream for good final fit cam & pinion feed, not “average to loose” reaming, and no guessing or finger crossing.
Are you keeping this thing as a rider, or just flipping it?
Nifty
Brake switch: I second Roodog, the 70’s small micro-switches for front brake were always unreliable and often a PITA to remove, do yourself a favour and Tee in a hydraulic switch. Later switchgear etc is also a good rider option. You might find a re-useable hose fitting to shorten long hose or a good brake shop should be able to crimp one on, but new hose might be cheaper, or scrounge a good used one.
Shovel alternator: Without very careful checking/testing, just looking at used parts, who knows what some bare alternator stators or rotors are? But its probably a reasonable bet that charging system was working with small battery before blow up. If you are leaving it kick only I would use what was on it & check charge rate once running. If you are running LEDs there will be more than enough watts to run small battery with Dyna S mechanical advance ignition. Me, I’d leave points or spend a few more bucks and go electronic advance, single fire and VOES for a real transformation.
Cam Cover: If bushes and everything else good on replacement cover, and it slips on nicely when you assemble engine, use it, saves removing bushes & drilling/cleaning shrapnel, if its old oil stain, try aircraft paint stripper (or “good” automotive non caustic stripper). But if it doesn’t slip nicely onto your re-built lower end… you are back where you started, its your roll of the dice.
Me, I’d use original cover, de-bush, drill, clean, re-bush and line ream for good final fit cam & pinion feed, not “average to loose” reaming, and no guessing or finger crossing.
Are you keeping this thing as a rider, or just flipping it?
Nifty
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Roo and Nifty, thanks for the great pointers.
Quite a good idea to upgrade to later switchblock controls. What's more is I probably have some in the Sportster pile of stuff. I've always liked the way those levers feel.
These are the alternator parts I've rounded up. Of the rotors I don't know which one was on the Shovel. Guessing the stator was Shovel's but there could easily be another one sitting somewhere. Regulators: Left came on this Shovel, lower center was with Evo stuff, Aftermarket one at top is one I had on my old Shovel about 1990 and was working when removed. Cam cover: pondering options. Original cover's cam bushing isn't perfect, has scarring from debris entering oil hole. Also I have another 2 covers, but I get it needs to fit perfect.
Not planning to flick bike on. Definitely want to have some fun on it and part of that fun is grooming out the bugs.
Quite a good idea to upgrade to later switchblock controls. What's more is I probably have some in the Sportster pile of stuff. I've always liked the way those levers feel.
These are the alternator parts I've rounded up. Of the rotors I don't know which one was on the Shovel. Guessing the stator was Shovel's but there could easily be another one sitting somewhere. Regulators: Left came on this Shovel, lower center was with Evo stuff, Aftermarket one at top is one I had on my old Shovel about 1990 and was working when removed. Cam cover: pondering options. Original cover's cam bushing isn't perfect, has scarring from debris entering oil hole. Also I have another 2 covers, but I get it needs to fit perfect.
Not planning to flick bike on. Definitely want to have some fun on it and part of that fun is grooming out the bugs.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Also make sure the pins of the stator plug on the front of the left case is clean and the plug from whatever regulator you use makes good electrical contact.nifty wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:51 am Exc,
Brake switch: I second Roodog, the 70’s small micro-switches for front brake were always unreliable and often a PITA to remove, do yourself a favour and Tee in a hydraulic switch. Later switchgear etc is also a good rider option. You might find a re-useable hose fitting to shorten long hose or a good brake shop should be able to crimp one on, but new hose might be cheaper, or scrounge a good used one.
Shovel alternator: Without very careful checking/testing, just looking at used parts, who knows what some bare alternator stators or rotors are? But its probably a reasonable bet that charging system was working with small battery before blow up. If you are leaving it kick only I would use what was on it & check charge rate once running. If you are running LEDs there will be more than enough watts to run small battery with Dyna S mechanical advance ignition. Me, I’d leave points or spend a few more bucks and go electronic advance, single fire and VOES for a real transformation.
Cam Cover: If bushes and everything else good on replacement cover, and it slips on nicely when you assemble engine, use it, saves removing bushes & drilling/cleaning shrapnel, if its old oil stain, try aircraft paint stripper (or “good” automotive non caustic stripper). But if it doesn’t slip nicely onto your re-built lower end… you are back where you started, its your roll of the dice.
Me, I’d use original cover, de-bush, drill, clean, re-bush and line ream for good final fit cam & pinion feed, not “average to loose” reaming, and no guessing or finger crossing.
Are you keeping this thing as a rider, or just flipping it?
Nifty
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
I rigged a simple test for the aftermarket paper filter bypass valve. It pops at very low pressure, almost immediately pressure is applied. I'm satisfied.
The thing about a filter is, when oil is hot it'll run through "like water". However when oil is cold and heavy it'll be much more reluctant to pass. This is even more true if the filter element is compromised with sediments so a bonus of the aftermarket filter is you can see in it for inspection.
As a subsequent thought, once this bike is running I'm going to open the oil tank cap and see if cold oil can pass at a rate that doesn't risk bypass valve popping. Will be interesting. Hope I can do that without an oil shower
Originally, wasn't going to completely dismantle the whole thing, frame, etc. It's funny, you think well, I'll just do this n that but you end up doing the whole lot. At least I'll be able to bolt it together the way I want it. There's numerous sub-standard bolts, nuts etc.
It has a Brembo caliper on a custom made bracket. Got these bits cleaned up right away. The chainguard needed grooming straight. The chain has sawn the front bracket and rubbed the upper part. All these got washed. Clutch has suffered a bit of scoring, must be from a previous failed hub lining. The current hub lining though good is loose on its' rivets. More of that braided brake line. The rest will live. Pleased to haul this little lot out of the back shed... There's a front master c/w lever, pr switchblocks, H4(?) headlight lens, silentbloc rubber mounts The cylinder/piston kit and other stuff has passed through Honolulu and Aussie now. Items were split into 3 shipments. Level4 nationwide lockdown here so am expecting delays.
The thing about a filter is, when oil is hot it'll run through "like water". However when oil is cold and heavy it'll be much more reluctant to pass. This is even more true if the filter element is compromised with sediments so a bonus of the aftermarket filter is you can see in it for inspection.
As a subsequent thought, once this bike is running I'm going to open the oil tank cap and see if cold oil can pass at a rate that doesn't risk bypass valve popping. Will be interesting. Hope I can do that without an oil shower
Originally, wasn't going to completely dismantle the whole thing, frame, etc. It's funny, you think well, I'll just do this n that but you end up doing the whole lot. At least I'll be able to bolt it together the way I want it. There's numerous sub-standard bolts, nuts etc.
It has a Brembo caliper on a custom made bracket. Got these bits cleaned up right away. The chainguard needed grooming straight. The chain has sawn the front bracket and rubbed the upper part. All these got washed. Clutch has suffered a bit of scoring, must be from a previous failed hub lining. The current hub lining though good is loose on its' rivets. More of that braided brake line. The rest will live. Pleased to haul this little lot out of the back shed... There's a front master c/w lever, pr switchblocks, H4(?) headlight lens, silentbloc rubber mounts The cylinder/piston kit and other stuff has passed through Honolulu and Aussie now. Items were split into 3 shipments. Level4 nationwide lockdown here so am expecting delays.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
The frame got cleaned up. It survived the 40 or so years reasonably well. There's a couple of tabs welded and footrest studs as well. I cleaned off the thick paint on the motor and trans mounts.
Harley part 43875-73 shows a wasted down axle According to parts books, FXWG and FLH take this axle.
Is there anything wrong with my findings or something I've missed? There appears to be 3 ways I could solve this.
One adjuster broken. Easy repair. Harder is the damage done to swingarm by PO overtightening the axle. The slinger is looking a bit sad. I seems as though the release bearing stack needs shimming so it could hold the slinger more square. The bearing has gone through the hardening so needs replacement.
Front axle is bent..
I think I've worked out what's happened. It's unusual because it's not wasted down on the threaded end..
The leg has been opened up to suit..
Is there anything wrong with my findings or something I've missed? There appears to be 3 ways I could solve this.
One adjuster broken. Easy repair. Harder is the damage done to swingarm by PO overtightening the axle. The slinger is looking a bit sad. I seems as though the release bearing stack needs shimming so it could hold the slinger more square. The bearing has gone through the hardening so needs replacement.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
That could very well be an FLH frame having the right foot board mount.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
The swingarm can be repaired by machining a steel block that matches the inside dimensions of the swingarm tube, including a groove for the weld inside the tube. The block must be slightly tapered for most of its length with only the last inch or so at the full dimension of the tube inside. Drill and tap one end to fit a slide hammer bolt. Coat the block with anti-seize and slam it in and out of the swingarm tube until the dents from overtightening are pushed out. The one in the pic is about 3.5" long.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
re "Harley part 43875-73 shows a wasted down axle[/url] According to parts books, FXWG and FLH take this axle.
Is there anything wrong with my findings or something I've missed?"
Many of the drawings in FXWG supplement are wrong, generic, inaccurate, when changes were made H-D often just cut & pasted earlier drawings and added later part numbers. The illustrations were only to guide you to the part numbers, the illustrations are not engineering drawings, this occurs throughout H-D parts books & service manuals way back to 1920s at least.
re "damage done to swingarm by PO overtightening the axle". After you use Flat38 method or similar to get the adjusters to slide inside arms, repair outside graunched divots by welding/grinding/sanding, then get/find high tensile hard washers that have OD to match height of arm, so some clamp load is taken by the top and bottom of rectangle, ditto axle spacers & caliper bracket, build up and re-machine for max contact to inside of arms. Stockish street bike axle nut does not have to be torqued to 150ftlbs. If you are going to drag race it, modify/make a new use-appropriate swingarm.
re "The slinger is looking a bit sad". The anti-rotation flats of rod will be worn, the anti-rotation flats of slinger will be worn, the clip & groove will also probably be worn & contributing to the slop. Shimming is a temporary bodge. When the pushrod spins inside the slinger no oil gets slung, ratchet bush etc then run dry, you can figure out the rest. Do yourself a favor and buy the complete pushrod kit, they come with uprated bearing too.
Nifty
Is there anything wrong with my findings or something I've missed?"
Many of the drawings in FXWG supplement are wrong, generic, inaccurate, when changes were made H-D often just cut & pasted earlier drawings and added later part numbers. The illustrations were only to guide you to the part numbers, the illustrations are not engineering drawings, this occurs throughout H-D parts books & service manuals way back to 1920s at least.
re "damage done to swingarm by PO overtightening the axle". After you use Flat38 method or similar to get the adjusters to slide inside arms, repair outside graunched divots by welding/grinding/sanding, then get/find high tensile hard washers that have OD to match height of arm, so some clamp load is taken by the top and bottom of rectangle, ditto axle spacers & caliper bracket, build up and re-machine for max contact to inside of arms. Stockish street bike axle nut does not have to be torqued to 150ftlbs. If you are going to drag race it, modify/make a new use-appropriate swingarm.
re "The slinger is looking a bit sad". The anti-rotation flats of rod will be worn, the anti-rotation flats of slinger will be worn, the clip & groove will also probably be worn & contributing to the slop. Shimming is a temporary bodge. When the pushrod spins inside the slinger no oil gets slung, ratchet bush etc then run dry, you can figure out the rest. Do yourself a favor and buy the complete pushrod kit, they come with uprated bearing too.
Nifty
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
I use axle adjusters like these....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/73-96-Shovelhe ... 2120049949
they fully support the swingarm tubing. Factory stuff ain't always the best thing....
....RooDog....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/73-96-Shovelhe ... 2120049949
they fully support the swingarm tubing. Factory stuff ain't always the best thing....
....RooDog....
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Thanks for the replies. Really good food for thought.
Check out the lower screw holding the caliper on. It's some sort of gutter screw..
I suppose I need do the seals in these calipers. Can't imagine they'll be anything but seized. Speedo turned out to be 11T which is '36 -'61 so 2:1 speedo that came with it is right Has got a 25T drive sprocket. Book says 23T is stock however there's a belt drive to consider. Has a big o-ring chain that's been sawing into the inner primary. The inner primary trans mainshaft bearing is very loose in housing.
What are my options? Drive sprocket/output gear rocks around a fair bit on the shaft. Suspiciously looks like it'll need a rebuild.
As I see it there's several options on the front axle situation.
1/. Buy the 43875-73 axle and sleeve either the axle or the leg.
2/. Make from 3/4" 4140 grade steel, thread one end 3/4"UNF and interference fit a sleeve on the other.
Check out the lower screw holding the caliper on. It's some sort of gutter screw..
I suppose I need do the seals in these calipers. Can't imagine they'll be anything but seized. Speedo turned out to be 11T which is '36 -'61 so 2:1 speedo that came with it is right Has got a 25T drive sprocket. Book says 23T is stock however there's a belt drive to consider. Has a big o-ring chain that's been sawing into the inner primary. The inner primary trans mainshaft bearing is very loose in housing.
What are my options? Drive sprocket/output gear rocks around a fair bit on the shaft. Suspiciously looks like it'll need a rebuild.
As I see it there's several options on the front axle situation.
1/. Buy the 43875-73 axle and sleeve either the axle or the leg.
2/. Make from 3/4" 4140 grade steel, thread one end 3/4"UNF and interference fit a sleeve on the other.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
What is the problem with the front axle? I looked long and hard for one like it without the turned down center area. Your's should accommodate most any Shovelhead wheel with 3/4 ID Timken bearings.
O Ring chains are thicker than non-O rings, so the rubbing on the back side of the primary is typical. Also a 25-T trans sprocket is about the limit of clearing the ratchet housing, but, as the chain & sprocket wear the chain will fly, if not kept tight, and will contact the ratchet and groove it. And if the chain should break, destruction is a real possibility. No larger than a 24-T sprocket is my guideline. Make your gearing changes with the rear wheel sprocket. A rear belt drive would entail removing the swingarm for installation or replacement, to me not worth the hassle.
....RooDog....
O Ring chains are thicker than non-O rings, so the rubbing on the back side of the primary is typical. Also a 25-T trans sprocket is about the limit of clearing the ratchet housing, but, as the chain & sprocket wear the chain will fly, if not kept tight, and will contact the ratchet and groove it. And if the chain should break, destruction is a real possibility. No larger than a 24-T sprocket is my guideline. Make your gearing changes with the rear wheel sprocket. A rear belt drive would entail removing the swingarm for installation or replacement, to me not worth the hassle.
....RooDog....
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
RooDog
Axle is badly bent. Bit like a snake. Too far gone to attempt to bring it back. Am guessing someone drilled the leg out?
The o-ring chain is wider than I run on the Panhead. Like about maybe 1mm wider. Also the sprocket is slightly narrow, so maybe half a mm narrower than normal/regular. This would allow excessive walking of the chain side-to-side.??
Could I run an outrigger bearing, do away with the inner primary?? Slide the gearbox back on the adjustment to get belt tensioned, shorten rear chain etc...?
Indeed I have an alternator belt drive alloy cover in the stash.
The 25T seems crazy tall for gearing, but then again I haven't factored in what the belt drive gearing will change. OK, I haven't ridden it yet either.
Actually I have a 22T sprocket in good order...
At this moment I think.. give me a conventional chain and primary case...!
Axle is badly bent. Bit like a snake. Too far gone to attempt to bring it back. Am guessing someone drilled the leg out?
The o-ring chain is wider than I run on the Panhead. Like about maybe 1mm wider. Also the sprocket is slightly narrow, so maybe half a mm narrower than normal/regular. This would allow excessive walking of the chain side-to-side.??
Could I run an outrigger bearing, do away with the inner primary?? Slide the gearbox back on the adjustment to get belt tensioned, shorten rear chain etc...?
Indeed I have an alternator belt drive alloy cover in the stash.
The 25T seems crazy tall for gearing, but then again I haven't factored in what the belt drive gearing will change. OK, I haven't ridden it yet either.
Actually I have a 22T sprocket in good order...
At this moment I think.. give me a conventional chain and primary case...!
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Sorry about the axle. I can get you the number for that axle if you want it.
22-t gearing is for the heavy Electraglide, 23 for the lighter FX, which would be OK for city, or hilly country roads, but I have always run a 24 even as far back at the 1970s on my bobber/chopper.... I don't like buzzing the engine....
....RD....
22-t gearing is for the heavy Electraglide, 23 for the lighter FX, which would be OK for city, or hilly country roads, but I have always run a 24 even as far back at the 1970s on my bobber/chopper.... I don't like buzzing the engine....
....RD....