Rebuild engine from boxes
Requesting advice
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Thanks for the thought George. I'll hunt local for something suitable. Haven't been able to find a frame swingarm dimensions plan. Would like to check before making parts fit.
Started on the bottom tree repair.. Got a bit to go..
Started on the bottom tree repair.. Got a bit to go..
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
A little more progress.
The steel was gradually whittled away taking care not to accidentally remove too much at a time. Final trim will be once I get tanks mounted. I did wonder if there was an optimum steering lock amount to aim for or any other considerations or was it simply: forks must not hit tanks!
There's a a good few hours work there. Feeling satisfied I could fix it rather than throwing money at replacement.
Next mission is to fab the lock bracket and stitch weld. Got sidetracked with a run to local bar brewery set up in a repurposed dairy factory building. They sell Apehanger brand beer on tap. Isn't pic modelled off an Ironhead Sportster?
The steel was gradually whittled away taking care not to accidentally remove too much at a time. Final trim will be once I get tanks mounted. I did wonder if there was an optimum steering lock amount to aim for or any other considerations or was it simply: forks must not hit tanks!
There's a a good few hours work there. Feeling satisfied I could fix it rather than throwing money at replacement.
Next mission is to fab the lock bracket and stitch weld. Got sidetracked with a run to local bar brewery set up in a repurposed dairy factory building. They sell Apehanger brand beer on tap. Isn't pic modelled off an Ironhead Sportster?
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Nice work on the tree. Looks factory. Nice bikes, too. Is that an Indian 741 in the middle?
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
"I did wonder if there was an optimum steering lock amount to aim for or any other considerations or was it simply: forks must not hit tanks!"
Unless you are into opposite lock power slides, tank clearance is priority, especially 5gal.
Dimensioned frame drawing in all service manuals, disc swing arm drawing is a bit harder to find
Nifty
Unless you are into opposite lock power slides, tank clearance is priority, especially 5gal.
Dimensioned frame drawing in all service manuals, disc swing arm drawing is a bit harder to find
Nifty
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Thanks.Mongrel505558 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:56 pm Nice work on the tree. Looks factory. Nice bikes, too. Is that an Indian 741 in the middle?
Both the Indians are 741's. Mine is the one in army trim.
The WLA is a Russian lend lease bike found in Azerbaijan hence the red star on tank.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
My friend Dave's 1942 Zundapp KS750 (middle). My pan to the left and my friend Rick's Ural to the right.Excalibur wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:28 amThanks.Mongrel505558 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:56 pm Nice work on the tree. Looks factory. Nice bikes, too. Is that an Indian 741 in the middle?
Both the Indians are 741's. Mine is the one in army trim.
The WLA is a Russian lend lease bike found in Azerbaijan hence the red star on tank.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Got a few little jobs done on the bike.
Repaired the broken stud by using a long bolt shank and increasing thread length. I pondered about making bigger bobbins for greater surface area to prevent damage to swingarm but I decided to go with original because I wouldn't be overtightening. I looked up the torque figure. 45 -50 ft/lb. Have never tightened to torque figure on that before but wouldn't hurt to see what that feels like. Found another speedo drive but a RH one and of the same ratio. Like that it's greaseable. My fork studs arrived from Aussie. There were cheaper than landing Colony. Old bottom tree pinch bolt vs new. They were only engaged by 3 -4 threads.
Repaired the broken stud by using a long bolt shank and increasing thread length. I pondered about making bigger bobbins for greater surface area to prevent damage to swingarm but I decided to go with original because I wouldn't be overtightening. I looked up the torque figure. 45 -50 ft/lb. Have never tightened to torque figure on that before but wouldn't hurt to see what that feels like. Found another speedo drive but a RH one and of the same ratio. Like that it's greaseable. My fork studs arrived from Aussie. There were cheaper than landing Colony. Old bottom tree pinch bolt vs new. They were only engaged by 3 -4 threads.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
I would advise against using those axle adjusters. They represent another turd from the MoCo for two reasons.
One: The small bearing surface of the bobbins has less holding power than a larger block and leads to collapsing and damaging the thin sheet metal of the swing arm....
Two: Should the axle loosen all the forward driving force of the rear wheel is transferred to that 5/16 threaded stud and the rear plate capping the end of the swingarm. I have seen those plates dished inward, and the threads pulled out of the nuts, or the studs stripped because of the axle losing purchase. Do yourself a favor and upgrade your bike over what the Factory did and use thick washers at each end of the axle, and solid blocks internally, you will never realize that you will be saving yourself some grief down the road......
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/35181195 ... -l1000.jpg
I use these blocks and pyramid end caps on my big inch Evo not because they may look cool but because they work ....
....RooDog....
One: The small bearing surface of the bobbins has less holding power than a larger block and leads to collapsing and damaging the thin sheet metal of the swing arm....
Two: Should the axle loosen all the forward driving force of the rear wheel is transferred to that 5/16 threaded stud and the rear plate capping the end of the swingarm. I have seen those plates dished inward, and the threads pulled out of the nuts, or the studs stripped because of the axle losing purchase. Do yourself a favor and upgrade your bike over what the Factory did and use thick washers at each end of the axle, and solid blocks internally, you will never realize that you will be saving yourself some grief down the road......
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/35181195 ... -l1000.jpg
I use these blocks and pyramid end caps on my big inch Evo not because they may look cool but because they work ....
....RooDog....
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Made a bit more progress as time allows.
Parts orders are held up. Presumably the slow shipping crisis is to blame.
Just read today, USPS mail has been suspended to NZ, Oz and a bunch of other countries. It is what it is...
The bearing dust cover clashes with steering neck housing. Studied parts book pics. Have I got this right? It's as though the tin lip is slightly too tall. Before hacking, best I ask... Could be a welcome to repop thing.? Popped a front disc off. Bolts are 5/16", holes in hub 7/16". Mentioned earlier but disc center is about 60mm while hub is 50mm. Both discs are slightly cupped. One measures within .007" of minimum. So, what should this have for discs and bolts. For countersunk bolts to be 7/16" they'd need a relatively small head. Is that a rear hub on the front? Is that even possible? What's the work-around? A query on engine RH main bearing oversize rollers. '71 -'84 parts catalog shows up to +.001 O/S is listed. According to quick phone conversation with HD Dave, he thought up to +.003" was available. So, is the extra oversizes from aftermarket? or has HD Dave remembered these vintage bikes wrongly?
Thinking today of running the old tires till they're done, used up... but then I thought, hang on those tubes will be really old. Not to mention the tire rubber will be hard. Any way I look at it, the tires will be changed out early, along with new tubes and de-rusted/painted wheel wells.
Making headway with this old bike so feeling satisfied. Just as well this is fun, labor of love...
Parts orders are held up. Presumably the slow shipping crisis is to blame.
Just read today, USPS mail has been suspended to NZ, Oz and a bunch of other countries. It is what it is...
The bearing dust cover clashes with steering neck housing. Studied parts book pics. Have I got this right? It's as though the tin lip is slightly too tall. Before hacking, best I ask... Could be a welcome to repop thing.? Popped a front disc off. Bolts are 5/16", holes in hub 7/16". Mentioned earlier but disc center is about 60mm while hub is 50mm. Both discs are slightly cupped. One measures within .007" of minimum. So, what should this have for discs and bolts. For countersunk bolts to be 7/16" they'd need a relatively small head. Is that a rear hub on the front? Is that even possible? What's the work-around? A query on engine RH main bearing oversize rollers. '71 -'84 parts catalog shows up to +.001 O/S is listed. According to quick phone conversation with HD Dave, he thought up to +.003" was available. So, is the extra oversizes from aftermarket? or has HD Dave remembered these vintage bikes wrongly?
Thinking today of running the old tires till they're done, used up... but then I thought, hang on those tubes will be really old. Not to mention the tire rubber will be hard. Any way I look at it, the tires will be changed out early, along with new tubes and de-rusted/painted wheel wells.
Making headway with this old bike so feeling satisfied. Just as well this is fun, labor of love...
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
The dust cover on the upper fork bearing is wrong. It looks like it should be the lower one that goes on the fork stem before the lower bearing is pressed into place. You don't have it installed in the picture of the lower tree with the built up fork stops....
That DC should be larger diameter, enough so as to umbrella the bearing cup to help keep dust and water out of the bearing.
The pictured spanner nut is correct for a Hydraglide fork, and will work on your FXWG front end. Lower dust shield is OEM# 48365-48, Upper dust shield should be # 48362-38A, but that needs to be confirmed.....
Later models, than the hydraglide, use these dust shields.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234186779852?c ... 4fc91798b5
The wheel hub with the 7/16" bolt holes is for the drive sprocket. 3/8" holes are for the rear brake disc. A dual flange hub with 5/16" holes on both flanges is for front brakes.....
....RooDog....
That DC should be larger diameter, enough so as to umbrella the bearing cup to help keep dust and water out of the bearing.
The pictured spanner nut is correct for a Hydraglide fork, and will work on your FXWG front end. Lower dust shield is OEM# 48365-48, Upper dust shield should be # 48362-38A, but that needs to be confirmed.....
Later models, than the hydraglide, use these dust shields.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234186779852?c ... 4fc91798b5
The wheel hub with the 7/16" bolt holes is for the drive sprocket. 3/8" holes are for the rear brake disc. A dual flange hub with 5/16" holes on both flanges is for front brakes.....
....RooDog....
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
I build my own wheels for my pan, since it's a mashup of parts, and with my '68 with it's mid-star hubs, I think I've run into every variation of steel hubs out there (including the real roller and shim star hubs). I've learned that they make (and I use) steel press-in spacers that reduce the holes in in the flanges depending on what you need to bolt to it. You can also get a kit of about 10 various width axle spacers in increments of 1/8" so you can get the wheel centered.
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Exc
No Idea what your discs are, 5/16" bolts with big centre hole is like Twinkie, did some Twinkies have 10" discs? I thought only 11.5 early and 11.8 late???
To the best of my knowledge, Dual disc steel front hub with 3/8" bolt holes is from Shovel. maybe Evo went to 5/16" bolts??
Dual disc hub flanges are symetrical left & right.
Rear hub flanges assymetric
Only rear shovel discs use 3/8" countersunk SHCS (so heads clear caliper mount)
Roodog is right on with 7/16" sprocket bolts, but as I mentioned in earlier post there are several different steel rear hubs and several different dished rear sprockets, plus some AM tell lies about dish/offsets. Apart from mocking up and measuring I know of no other way to get it right. I am unaware of reliable hub flange position & sprocket offset/dish dimensions.
re mismatch bolt holes
I've been thinking of re-machining bigger high tensile bolts into custom shoulder nuts (decent hex size nut with integral hole spacer and full length thread), to run 5/16" bolts with 11.8 discs on Shovel dual disc hub. Plus spacer rings for disc ID.
'
re fork
I don't have a part number for loose top cover, but...
48330-86A Bearing Jam Nut With cover (bearing adjuster supplied with loose upper dust shield)
Above upper dust cover when used with taper roller bearings, fits 49-2008+ (rolled edge fits outside neck cup, as per Roodog's "umbrella" description) = 0.025” thick steel, 1.004” x 2.405” with about .100" plain rolled 90deg lip (these top covers work with OE frame cups, some AM frame cups made differently)
48365-48A Lower dust cover 49-2008+, goes over stem before cone (rolled edge fits inside neck cup) = 0.025” thick steel, 1.020” x 2.100”
Nifty
No Idea what your discs are, 5/16" bolts with big centre hole is like Twinkie, did some Twinkies have 10" discs? I thought only 11.5 early and 11.8 late???
To the best of my knowledge, Dual disc steel front hub with 3/8" bolt holes is from Shovel. maybe Evo went to 5/16" bolts??
Dual disc hub flanges are symetrical left & right.
Rear hub flanges assymetric
Only rear shovel discs use 3/8" countersunk SHCS (so heads clear caliper mount)
Roodog is right on with 7/16" sprocket bolts, but as I mentioned in earlier post there are several different steel rear hubs and several different dished rear sprockets, plus some AM tell lies about dish/offsets. Apart from mocking up and measuring I know of no other way to get it right. I am unaware of reliable hub flange position & sprocket offset/dish dimensions.
re mismatch bolt holes
I've been thinking of re-machining bigger high tensile bolts into custom shoulder nuts (decent hex size nut with integral hole spacer and full length thread), to run 5/16" bolts with 11.8 discs on Shovel dual disc hub. Plus spacer rings for disc ID.
'
re fork
I don't have a part number for loose top cover, but...
48330-86A Bearing Jam Nut With cover (bearing adjuster supplied with loose upper dust shield)
Above upper dust cover when used with taper roller bearings, fits 49-2008+ (rolled edge fits outside neck cup, as per Roodog's "umbrella" description) = 0.025” thick steel, 1.004” x 2.405” with about .100" plain rolled 90deg lip (these top covers work with OE frame cups, some AM frame cups made differently)
48365-48A Lower dust cover 49-2008+, goes over stem before cone (rolled edge fits inside neck cup) = 0.025” thick steel, 1.020” x 2.100”
Nifty
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
Exc
+.003" rollers are kinda big...I don't doubt they exist, I have some 1/4" x 1/4" +.002" I use occasionally in old Brit single big-ends.
Have you measured your pinion shaft and case race?
Done a quick lap to see if case race is close to clean-up?
Nifty
+.003" rollers are kinda big...I don't doubt they exist, I have some 1/4" x 1/4" +.002" I use occasionally in old Brit single big-ends.
Have you measured your pinion shaft and case race?
Done a quick lap to see if case race is close to clean-up?
Nifty
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Re: Rebuild engine from boxes
48362-38A DUST SHIELD, Upper at fork bearing FX FL CONFIRMED FOR ZINC PLATED VERSION
Nifty
Nifty
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