52 pan cases? something looks wrong

[old52pan]

check out these pan cases the seller states are 52 with matching numbers. left case is obviously a 55. belly numbers restamped? What do you all think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-1 ... ccessories

[Bosheff]

The # side case has a -55 casting #, while the cam side case has a -53 casting #. But hay, the belly #'s are 152 so ya know these gotta be right, right? To bad he didn't show a closeup of the # boss. My guess would be that these are funky....bosheff

[Speeding Big Twin]

Yeah, left case is somewhere from 1955 to 1964. Right-hand case has casting number 24563-53B with what appears to be 5-5 (May 1955) casting date code. Yet serial number is 1952 and appears NOT to be factory-stamped. I'm not an eBay member so cannot view the full answers to some of the questions the seller is getting. Eric

Bf1E2DQmkKGrHqMH-CsErfYrdLCBLCyZKq9.jpg (40.65 KiB) Viewed 946 times

[steve_wood]

There was a question and answer regarding the date:

Q: it seems like the casting date codes are 55 ? how do you think it got to be a 52 ? Thanks Nov-24-09

A: I hide nothing, thats why I took pictures of the casting dates inside. The left case is a 55 OEM case. I love old iron, it has character and some times some interesting history. I have no idea how it came about, do know its a legal vin #..Thanks for the interest. i bought these as such for a project i wont get too any time soon..Ruben

As for the sellers feedback:

55 Transactions in the last 12 months with 1 Negative feedback. See below:

$858 GONE TOTAL CROOK MAJOR RUST PITTS + BIG CRACK IN FORK NO REFUND OFFERED broke_bike (private) Apr-23-09 10:46

Follow-up by broke_bike (May-05-09 23:31):
got my $ back from paypal but lost return shipping do not trust this crook

[Bosheff]

Not to get on a soapbox here, but these clowns sellin these H-D's with left handed #'s are startin to really piss me off. I have been buyin and sellin H-Ds for the better part of 40 years, and 20 years ago it was not unusual to see a pan, knuck , or even a shovel for sale that had been tatooed. I guess I shouldn't find it all that unusual that an even greater percentage of them these days are bogus. The same thing with guys runnin swing arm frames from 70-84 that have had the # boss ground off and think nothin of it. This does nothing but perpetuate theft and dealin in stolen parts. All I can say is don't do business with these jerks, cause when ya put em on the money bout funky #'s they all plead the 5th. But on the brighter side, a nice unaltered or well documented unit should and deserves to command a premium sale price. Remember, the next stolen panhead could be yers....bosheff

[old52pan]

I could not agree more that these guys are ruining things for alot of us. I have on the shelf a set of stock,unaltered original 52 pan cases titled in my name and their value goes up all the time thanks to guys like that selling restamped crap that may be stolen. He states the history to be interesting?
ebay case belly numbers pictured below.
Cotton, feel free to comment. tim

[john HD]

tim,

i feel the same way. if you buy stuff like this that is possibly stolen then all you are doing is keeping the creeps in business. if they were a dealer restamp i would be damn certain to have documentation to back it up.

i would be uneasy about even having them in my garage. let alone trying to sell them on the internet!

i guess would i have to much to risk by trying to commit a felony so publicly.

interesting history my ass.

john

[Bosheff]

This whistledick openly admits knowing that the # side case is a 55, but is selling them off as 52's. He says the title is legitimate, but that doesn't make the cases legal, just the title, in my book. If I was prosecuting this guy for possession of an altered VIN, I wouldn't have to cross examine him, he openly admits knowing it, and put it in writing to boot. I wonder if his name is on the title. I really doubt it....bosheff

[oldbob]

Ebay management does not have a clue how to spot bad VIN numbers on Harley engines or engine cases. Perhaps it is time some one told them just what is going on, there is a report this item link on each auction. I have never been much of a snich but I do find this sort of thing to be offensive. I would be pretty upset if some one stole my UL and made a killing grinding and re stamping the VIN.

[FlatHeadSix]

grinder marks? the belly numbers don't look any better than the VIN

[lockdoc]

I don't know. I'm sure I'll catch slack but your guys morals concerning these bikes are a lot higher than mine. I'd gladly take these cases with a legal title. Great starting point if you want to make a custom chopper\bobber built any way you want. Only having to deal with emission and inspection laws of 1952. That is why I keep my 1970 frame. Got a frame with a title. I can put anything I want in it. And I don't have to have turn signals, special exhaust or any other crap like that. Allows you to be "Old School" if you so wish which you can't do with an "MSO".

[FlatHeadSix]

Doc
I completely understand what you are saying about building around a legitamate set of vintage cases or a pre-emission frame.

The problem here is that the paper doesn't mean a thing to some law enforcement agencies that inspect the older bikes. If the numbers even appear to be suspicious they don't care if you have a title with the same numbers, its the numbers that are bad, not the title. Your title won't help you much after they literally bust the numbered sections out of your cases with a BFH and conviscate the pieces of aluminum with the ground down surface and restamped number. Too bad, so sad, and, oh, by the way, you owe us for the tow and impound charges. Its not an urban myth, they do it.

You might be safe if all you do is cruise across the bridges of Madison County, but don't leave it parked on the street in Daytona during bike week.

mike

[Bosheff]

I completely understand your position LockDoc. In my mind the two most important, and expensive assemblies on any motorcycle are the engine and the frame. It all starts with these parts. It just so happens that these are the parts where the VIN is stamped, depending on the manufactured year of the unit. These are also two of the most labor intensive parts to remove, replace, or rebuild. Point being, why would a person start what they deem a legitimate build using an engine or frame with questionable origin? A thief does this for a quick buck. Newcomers to the motorcycle building world may not know the ins and outs of titling and registering these things, but you can bet Officer Friendly does, and even if he doesn't, who's gonna win when he's gotcha pulled over at midnight. Even if he's wrong he's still got ya by the balls. Ever watch yer scooter bein towed away, swingin from the back of a wrecker? That'll piss ya right off. Ya get to the impound lot the next day after provin beyond a reasonable doubt the thing is legit, an what do ya see? A couple of impound dummies usin yer unit to pull holeshots across the parking lot. Ya think you were mad last night, yer blood is boilin now. Oh ya, don't forget the impound fees and the towing charge on top of everything else. And then there's the time ya took off from work, more $'s out the window. Well, I been there, and it sucks fer sure. So go ahead and support the thiefs and questionable #'s and such. Someday you may be cuttin the neck off yer beloved pan with a hacksaw to make the authorities happy. This shit happens more often than you thinkl....bosheff

[lockdoc]

I must admit I have NO experience with the type of law enforcement some of you have run into over the years. Thank God. I see your points though and I'll keep them in mind. I don't have the full 40 year history of my frame but I do have about 30 years worth when the shovel was taken out to put in a chopper. My left side case had exploded at some point and was replaced with a Cal Custom case with no #s at all on it to worry about.

[Cotten]

A paper means nothing if the hardware has been felonized.

Illinois used to bend over backwards to help folks straighten out their paperwork. But now it is out of the hands of inforcement, and dictated entirely by bureaucrat desk-nazis who consider you guilty until proven innocent.

After writing title-bond appraisals as a State-licensed shop since '93, the State no long recognizes my authority, even though I still pay for the license on the wall.

If anyone attempts to use an out-of-state title mill, they are notified by Illinois that they have attempted mail fraud, and the machine will never be titled in the State.

The best we can do is arm ourselves with knowledge to avoid purchasing any liabilities in the first place, and work to convince our local lawmakers that we should keep our rights, freedoms, and property.

...Cotten