This Belly Number
-
- Member
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:54 pm
- Bikes: 57 Pan, 42 WLA
- Location: SW Florida
- Been thanked: 8 times
This Belly Number
I've had this engine, left case says 57FL2xx6, titled in three states since 1976.
In a tear down now so I thought I'd look at and record the belly numbers. What do y'all think?
In a tear down now so I thought I'd look at and record the belly numbers. What do y'all think?
- Attachments
-
- Belly.jpg (82.98 KiB) Viewed 3775 times
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:10 pm
- Bikes: 1937 U big flathead, 88" stroker, dual port, big cams, pop-up pistons
- Location: Lynbrook, New York
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 387 times
- Contact:
Re: This Belly Number
And is it a 57 or a 62?
57: small pinion bearing, brass cam bearing, 1/4" generator screws
62: large pinion bearing, Torrington cam bearing, 5/16" generator screws
57: small pinion bearing, brass cam bearing, 1/4" generator screws
62: large pinion bearing, Torrington cam bearing, 5/16" generator screws
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8404
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 481 times
- Been thanked: 2954 times
Re: This Belly Number
Some dealer replacement cases only had two digits on them. As Kitabel says, what are the other features?
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:10 pm
- Bikes: 1937 U big flathead, 88" stroker, dual port, big cams, pop-up pistons
- Location: Lynbrook, New York
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 387 times
- Contact:
Re: This Belly Number
Doesn't it seem likely that only individual blank cases (un-matched) would bear only the year stamp?
That "62" is waiting for a drop of dilute HCL...
That "62" is waiting for a drop of dilute HCL...
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8404
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 481 times
- Been thanked: 2954 times
Re: This Belly Number
Why would you assume it is a year stamp? As I said, some replacement cases only had two digits. Those two digits are merely that, two digits, possibly the first two of the line code. But on other sets I have seen they have nothing to do with the year of the cases.
-
- Member
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:54 pm
- Bikes: 57 Pan, 42 WLA
- Location: SW Florida
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: This Belly Number
Don't know how to measure pinion bearings. End of cam is .80 (I have the cam cover off to be polished.)
Has 5/16" generator screws, seemingly.
I fully expect it to be a '57.
Has 5/16" generator screws, seemingly.
I fully expect it to be a '57.
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8404
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 481 times
- Been thanked: 2954 times
Re: This Belly Number
Schwee,
A few clues to determine the year of the cases.
Looking into the cam chest, if the pinion gear race ID looks approximately the same size as the pinion gear OD it is pre '58. The '58 and later pinion bearing is noticeably larger. Also, the stock '58 up case side of the cam is a needle bearing, '57 and earlier is a bushing. The needle bearing types have a tabbed thrust washer on the case side. Looking in with a flashlight will tell you these things.
Robbie
A few clues to determine the year of the cases.
Looking into the cam chest, if the pinion gear race ID looks approximately the same size as the pinion gear OD it is pre '58. The '58 and later pinion bearing is noticeably larger. Also, the stock '58 up case side of the cam is a needle bearing, '57 and earlier is a bushing. The needle bearing types have a tabbed thrust washer on the case side. Looking in with a flashlight will tell you these things.
Robbie
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1261
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:29 am
- Bikes: H-D
- Location: Western Australia
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 310 times
Re: This Belly Number
Schwee, I see no evidence thus far that the cases are 57 or 62. As Robbie mentioned, some replacement cases only had two digits on them. It was done to identify the cases as a pair and therefore the two characters do not necessarily indicate a model year. Also, I see no sign that other characters were removed.
You fully expect it to be a ’57? Why? Because it is stamped 57?
In this instance, just because it is stamped 57FL2xx6 doesn’t mean anything. If it was a real 57 then I’d expect it to have belly numbers formatted as per the following example: 157-1234. But because it has 62 then the cases may be a pair of replacements and that may mean the serial number wasn’t stamped at the factory although it may have been stamped by a Harley dealer. And how would you know if number 2xx6 for 1957 was originally assigned to an FL? For 1957, number 2xx6 could have even been originally assigned to an FLH. You’ve had it titled in three states since 1976 but what happened with it before then? Can you post a photo of 57FL2xx6 please.
You said it has 5/16” generator screws, seemingly. The problem there is that 57s originally had 1/4” generator screws. The 5/16” screws didn’t start until 1958 models. However, anyone could have changed the hole size so 5/16” screws don’t necessarily mean anything as far as the year of the right-hand case is concerned.
Has the right-hand case got a cradle for a generator? If so then that could indicate 1957 or earlier because the cradle was omitted for 1958 and later.
Do you intend splitting the cases? If so, what are the casting numbers inside? And if present, what are the date codes inside? If you’re not splitting the cases then can you please post photos of the entire outside of both cases.
Eric
You fully expect it to be a ’57? Why? Because it is stamped 57?
In this instance, just because it is stamped 57FL2xx6 doesn’t mean anything. If it was a real 57 then I’d expect it to have belly numbers formatted as per the following example: 157-1234. But because it has 62 then the cases may be a pair of replacements and that may mean the serial number wasn’t stamped at the factory although it may have been stamped by a Harley dealer. And how would you know if number 2xx6 for 1957 was originally assigned to an FL? For 1957, number 2xx6 could have even been originally assigned to an FLH. You’ve had it titled in three states since 1976 but what happened with it before then? Can you post a photo of 57FL2xx6 please.
You said it has 5/16” generator screws, seemingly. The problem there is that 57s originally had 1/4” generator screws. The 5/16” screws didn’t start until 1958 models. However, anyone could have changed the hole size so 5/16” screws don’t necessarily mean anything as far as the year of the right-hand case is concerned.
Has the right-hand case got a cradle for a generator? If so then that could indicate 1957 or earlier because the cradle was omitted for 1958 and later.
Do you intend splitting the cases? If so, what are the casting numbers inside? And if present, what are the date codes inside? If you’re not splitting the cases then can you please post photos of the entire outside of both cases.
Eric
-
- Member
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:54 pm
- Bikes: 57 Pan, 42 WLA
- Location: SW Florida
- Been thanked: 8 times
Re: This Belly Number
kitabel wrote:And is it a 57 or a 62?
57: small pinion bearing, brass cam bearing, 1/4" generator screws
62: large pinion bearing, Torrington cam bearing, 5/16" generator screws
So, is this small or large pinion bearing?
- Attachments
-
- Inside.jpg (77.92 KiB) Viewed 3532 times
-
- Former member
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3336
- Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:54 pm
- Bikes: 1958flh 1969sporty,had a knuckle but sold back to original owner
- Location: NEW JERSEY
- Has thanked: 195 times
- Been thanked: 278 times
Re: This Belly Number
I cant really see it ON my crappy monitor anyway!--Was the cases cam bering a NEEDLE-BERING or a BUSHING??--I see the 5/16 genny holes for 58 & up.Maybe somebody can makeout the darkarea where the Pinion is--Mines all black & I cannot lighten it on this 15-inch cheapo monitor!----RICHIE
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:10 pm
- Bikes: 1937 U big flathead, 88" stroker, dual port, big cams, pop-up pistons
- Location: Lynbrook, New York
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 387 times
- Contact:
Re: This Belly Number
Much easier to say "I don't know what a pinion bearing is".
Re: "the two characters do not necessarily indicate a model year"
Right - just a coincidence that it's:
1. where the year would be
2. later than the year it's stamped
3. mechanically compatible
If it's not a year, why 2 digits (allowing only 100 case sets)?
How many matched pairs has anyone here seen with a 2-digit number on both cases in the same place before 36 or after 69? Any cases stamped "12"? How about "97"?
Would that be none?
If you're 30 years old, and you see "1984" on some document, it could be the year Columbus discovered America. But it's not - it's your birthday.
Re: "the two characters do not necessarily indicate a model year"
Right - just a coincidence that it's:
1. where the year would be
2. later than the year it's stamped
3. mechanically compatible
If it's not a year, why 2 digits (allowing only 100 case sets)?
How many matched pairs has anyone here seen with a 2-digit number on both cases in the same place before 36 or after 69? Any cases stamped "12"? How about "97"?
Would that be none?
If you're 30 years old, and you see "1984" on some document, it could be the year Columbus discovered America. But it's not - it's your birthday.
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8404
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 481 times
- Been thanked: 2954 times
Re: This Belly Number
I just traded off a Knuckle case with only the two digits 67 on the belly. Late date code (I-7) '47 replacement case.