Comments |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Vent in the case or not? For the first few years the 121 35 case had no boss for a vent—for example, this one cast in September 1938.
P3A. September 1938 casting.jpg P3B. September 1938 date code.jpg
In those instances, venting was usually handled by a nipple in the starter cover. However, some cases with no vent boss have a machined hole as per the next example cast December 1938. A vent nipple (old #2265-36, new #34720-36) is installed.
P4A. December 1938.jpg P4B. December 1938 date code.jpg
I don’t know who machined that hole. Was it done at the factory? By a dealer? By someone else?
Also with no vent boss but a machined hole is this April 1939 case.
P5A. April 1939.jpg P5B. April 1939 date code.jpg
And once again I don’t know who machined the hole.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
But as early as May 39 (E 9) there was a cast-in boss for a vent nipple.
P6A. May 1939 vent nipple boss.jpg P6B. May 1939.jpg
And because the boss appeared as early as May 39 casting, it may be possible this type of case was first used for some late-39 model machines.
The vent nipple remained in the case boss through 1955 models but as of 1956 models the boss was originally left unmachined and H-D changed to vent screw #34720-56 placed in the lid.
P7. Unmachined boss. Vent screw in lid.jpg
However, if such a case was a replacement to be used for a 55 or earlier machine then the case boss may have been machined as original. Also it’s possible for anyone else to drill a boss at any stage so always check for other ID.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Bronze insert or steel insert? As seen above, the Sept 38 case and May 39 case have a bronze insert underneath for the mounting bolt on the R-H side. Also fitted with a bronze insert is this July 41 (G 1) case.
P8A. July 1941 has bronze insert.jpg P8B. July 1941.jpg
But the May 44 (E 4) case below has a steel insert. The change from bronze to steel apparently occurred around late-43–early-44.
P9. May 1944 has steel insert.jpg
NB: recently on another site I ran across a D 9 trans with a steel insert but it wasn’t a 1949 case because three other features definitely indicated April 39 as opposed to April 49. In that instance, the case probably had a bronze insert originally and then it had been replaced later on with a steel insert.
Also, there are reports that the mounting bolt underneath on the R-H side debuted on some early-37 models as opposed to mid/later-37s. There are other things too that can assist with ID of a 121 35 case cast prior to date code introduction so if your 121 35 case has no date code then please let me know and I’ll try to help identify it.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Two bosses at upper left front: in the next picture the two rounded bosses normally help indicate a 1946 or earlier model case. This example was cast in June 1945 (F 5).
P10A. June 1945 round bosses.jpg P10B. June 1945.jpg
But as of 1947 models those two bosses were flat to provide clearance for the (hand) gear shifter lever which was changed from pointing up to pointing down. Clearance at first may have been achieved by the factory machining bosses that were cast round but at some point the bosses were cast flat. The next case was cast in January 1947 (A 7) and has flat bosses but I do not know if they were cast flat or machined flat at the factory.
P11A. January 1947 flat bosses.jpg P11B. January 1947.jpg
Also be aware that flat bosses are not always a good indicator because some people flattened bosses on some pre-47 model cases. Always check for other ID.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Bosses for two mounting studs at lower left: this case was cast in August 1948 (H8 is upside down) and has the normal lower left bosses for that time.
P12. Slim bosses.jpg
I used the August 48 case because the mounting studs are absent and the view of the bosses is unimpeded but other examples I have suggest those two bosses were still like that in March 49. I don’t yet know what they were like in April and May 49. A June 49 case appears to show beefier bosses but a photo I have of what appears to be F 9 isn’t clear. Anyway, it seems by July 49 at the latest that more material was added to those areas, as illustrated by the G 9 case below.
P13. July 1949 bosses.jpg
For comparison of the front boss from the side and top, here is a case cast in December 1948.
P14. December 1948.jpg
And an August 1950 case showing the beefed up boss.
P15. August 1950.jpg
These are the clearest examples I have to demonstrate the difference from the side/top but as I mentioned earlier, the change seems to have occurred sometime during 1949.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Getting back to date codes, was the letter I skipped on occasion? In discussions on a couple of forums several years ago it was said the letter I was omitted from all codes on aluminium parts (trans and engine) cast in 1948–49 due to confusion with the number 1. Some engine pieces showed up with code M8 and M9, as did some BT trans lids with M8. M apparently indicated December so that should have meant the letter I had indeed been skipped. However, later on some other BT trans lids that appeared to have been cast in 1948, not 1938, showed up with code I8 so now we have some 1948 trans lids with I8 and some with M8. Why? I don’t know.
For trans cases cast in 1948, was code I8 used? Haven’t seen one yet so if you have an example please let me know. There is, however, M8 on a BT trans case from 1948.
Eric
P16A. 1948 casting has M8.jpg
P16B. 1948 date code.jpg
P16C. 1948 casting.jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Next code looks like I 9 and it appears to indicate September 49 as opposed to September 39.
P17A.jpg
P17B.jpg
P17C.jpg
I also have other examples that appear to be I 9 on 1949 cases and it is something I am still looking into. On a 121 35 case, M9 has yet to be seen by me so if you have an example then please let me know. L 9 is the latest I have for 1949 so far but regardless of which letter(s) indicated Dec 49, I do not know if letter-number was the only format used for BT trans cases that month. For BT aluminium engine parts cast in Dec 49 I have seen two code formats: letter-number; and numbers-only. These suggest Dec 49 was a changeover period for engine code formats so a similar thing may have happened with date codes on BT aluminium transmission parts.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Other markings: as seen above, some trans cases have an indented 1 or 2 near the casting number and I thought these may be inspector markings done at a foundry but a few months ago someone said they were a mould form number. I cannot say for sure what 1 and 2 mean but if anyone does know for certain then please comment. Other cases have an indented 1 E or 2 E but thus far I have only seen the E on cases cast July 49 and later.
Sometimes characters are found on the left side and on the back near the hole for the adjusting screw.
P18. H on left.jpg
P19. S and 40.jpg
Apart from H, S and 40, other characters seen either on the left side or at the back are A, B, D, F, G, L, T, W, Y, 0, 1, 5 and 9 but I have no idea what they mean and my best guess is that they may have been stamped by an inspector. Anyone know for certain?
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Machined for reverse gear or not? Some transmissions had reverse gear installed as original while others did not but even some of the latter may still have been factory-machined to accommodate an idler gear shaft. On these occasions, with reverse not required, the inner hole for the shaft was left open but the outer hole was plugged as per the next case.
P20. Idler gear shaft outer hole is plugged.jpg
But the case below was not machined to accommodate an idler gear shaft. Date code is 11 61 for November 1961.
Eric
P21A. Idler gear shaft hole not drilled.jpg
P21B. November 1961.jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Two cases for 1964 Panheads: as I mentioned earlier, some 1964 Pans had a 121 35 case while others had a 34703 64 case. Here is the front of a 121 35 case cast October 1962 (10 62) and it has a recess on the starter side.
P22A. Front 121 35 case (Oct 62).jpg
P22B. October 1962.jpg
But the front of a 34703 64 case has extra material as per this one which was cast October 1963 (10 63).
Eric
P23A. Front 34703 64 case (Oct 63).jpg
P23B. Underneath 34703 64 case (Oct 63).jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Next is the left side of the 121 35 case from Oct 62.
P24. Left side 121 35 case (Oct 62).jpg
But a 34703 64 case has longer versions of those three bosses.
Eric
P25. Panhead trans case 34703 64.jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Another difference is the top opening. Again the first photo below shows the 121 35 case cast in Oct 62.
P26. Top 121 35 case (Oct 62).jpg
But the opening is different with a 34703 64 case.
P27. Top 34703 64 case.jpg
For 34703 64 cases, apparently a change to the inner wall on the starter side meant spacer washer #33237-64 had to be used if an idler gear shaft for reverse was installed. Anyone know of other changes introduced with 34703 64 cases?
And although some 34703 64 cases have codes such as 10 63 and 12-63, the two examples below bear no sign of a date code.
Eric
P28. No date code.jpg
P29. No date code.jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
After 34703 64 came casting number 34703 65. This case retained some changes introduced with the 34703 64 case but incorporated other changes to accept an aluminium inner primary.
P30A. Casting number 34703 65.jpg
P30B.jpg
It debuted for 1965 Panheads but the same casting number appeared on Shovelhead cases for 1966 and several more years. I have never seen a date code on a 34703 65 case.
Other casting numbers seen on Shovel trans cases are 34703 77, 34709 78, 34709 79, 34709 80, 34709 82 and 34707 82A.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Additional original component identifying numbers: these are sometimes referred to as security codes or anti-theft numbers. Additional ID began with 1962 models and for Panhead trans cases I find it stamped on the front just below where the lid attaches. The ID consists of one capital letter followed by either three or four numbers. The first letter used was A so it is on some 62 models but there is also evidence that A was used for some 63s and the proof came via a confirmation letter from the factory to the owner of a certain 63FL.
The earliest cases I know of to have additional ID were cast in Jan, Aug and Oct 1960 but I used the Jan 61 (1-61) case below as an example because the letter A is clearer.
P31A. Additional original component identifying number.jpg
P31B. January 1961.jpg
I don’t know exactly how Harley assigned the additional ID but B is another letter apparently used for some 1962–63 models. B has also been confirmed by the factory as original on the 121 35 trans of a certain 64FLH and it can be found on some 1964 Pans with 34703 64 cases as well. However, some 64s may have C or D.
Pans for 65 also had ID on the front, as did many Shovels. Apparently the letters I, O and Q were skipped, with Z being the last single letter used. By that stage (Z), Shovel transmissions had casting number 34709 78 but that case also appears to be the first to receive double letters: AA. The ID seems to have remained on the front at least into the double letters BC. At some later point it moved to the top of the upper rear ear where the inner primary attached, two examples being BF and BG. But shortly thereafter the ID shifted to the back of the case and BH is the first I’ve seen there, while the latest so far is BV.
Questions and/or comments welcome regarding any of my above posts. Or if anyone has a trans case I can help ID then please feel free to contact me anytime.
And thank you to panhead (Site Admin) for your assistance with forum settings. Your help is much appreciated.
Eric |
panhead, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Thank you for sharing! |
1950Panhead, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Eric,
This is excellent work, thanks for posting. |
Bigincher, Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Eric, it's really good to see some of your knowledge published in a complete and comprehensive form like this. It's an invaluable resource, and I hope will be a chapter or series of chapters in a book that I hope you're able to produce at some point. Engine cases, cylinders, cylinder heads, transmissions, steering forks, frames, wheels, and more- when it comes to identifying stamps, codes, and characteristics, you're the man!
Thank you for the above information, and best of luck in any future endeavor. (Seriously- you should print a book!) |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Cheers, guys, and thanks for the kind words. I don’t think I’ll be going to print anytime soon though. There are still a few codes and other things I’d like to resolve in one area or another.
Eric |
George Greer, Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Speeding Big Twin wrote:Next code looks like I 9 and it appears to indicate September 49 as opposed to September 39.
P17A.jpg
P17B.jpg
P17C.jpg
I also have other examples that appear to be I 9 on 1949 cases and it is something I am still looking into. On a 121 35 case, M9 has yet to be seen by me so if you have an example then please let me know. L 9 is the latest I have for 1949 so far but regardless of which letter(s) indicated Dec 49, I do not know if letter-number was the only format used for BT trans cases that month. For BT aluminium engine parts cast in Dec 49 I have seen two code formats: letter-number; and numbers-only. These suggest Dec 49 was a changeover period for engine code formats so a similar thing may have happened with date codes on BT aluminium transmission parts.
Eric
Eric,
Great information here, and I will buy the book too!
I built a transmission using that case.
It is now on its way to Portland Oregon where I will install it into my project bike.
I have a few other photos if you need them.
George |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Thanks, George. Good to hear your bike is progressing. I’m okay for photos of that one at the moment. I have a couple more examples of I 9 cases with the beefier bosses and over the years I tried interpreting the code in other ways for those particular examples but none of them worked and I kept coming back to I 9 for Sept 49. It will be interesting to see if M9 shows up on a BT trans case and I’m also looking for what happened in Dec 59.
Eric |
Panacea, Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Interesting stuff Thanks for posting...Mikw |
Panacea, Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Here's another example from 43? IMG_1096.JPG |
hplhd, Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
thanks eric. |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Mike, yes, that would be 1943, August. The insert may be bronze if original.
Cheers, Rich.
Eric |
58flh, Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Eric----Your knowledge is priceless!//I have been able to CORRECTLY identify MONTH for 3 of my customers using your wealth of knowledge!.We knew the years/but when it came down to the bosses//I was at a loss for info!.Thank-you SOOO MUCH for sharing your Years works of Coding knowledge!----Respectfully---Richie///(oh I to would purchase a Book if you ever get around to Doing so!). |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Cheers, Richie. Re the two lower bosses, on CAI in Feb 2011 Matthew Olsen mentioned the change. He said more material was added there as of sometime in the early-50s. I began looking into it and tracking the difference via the date codes. Matthew was close with his estimation but in fact it seems the change to the casting occurred at some point during the 49 calendar year.
Eric |
VPH-D, Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
I had a look at the trans for my 45FL last week. It has an L4 date code, with a steel insert for the mounting bolt.
VPH-D |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Thanks VPH-D. Steel insert as original is consistent with L 4.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Two DCs that can be added to the list in my first post are from December 1939 and June 1949. The first case below has rounded bosses at top left so in this instance L 9 indicates Dec 39. Also notice the insert.
December 1939 case.jpg
December 1939.jpg
On the next case F 9 indicates June 49. When I started this thread I had photos of what appeared to be a June 1949 case but the DC wasn’t clear. The F 9 example below is much better and the case has beefed up bosses for the left-side mounting studs. June 49 is now the earliest casting I’m aware of that has the beefier bosses.
Eric
June 1949.jpg
June 1949 case.jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Below is another example to add to the list. Date code 5 61 indicating casting in May 1961.
May 1961.jpg
Earlier in the thread I mentioned vent screw #34720-56 was placed in the trans lid as of 1956 models. This is confirmed by Shop Dope 372 dated February 6, 1956.
Shop Dope 372.jpg
Another interesting document is Service Bulletin 439 issued March 29, 1961, addressing a change to the Duo-Glide speedo drive. Notice the last paragraph on page 1 says the letter C will be found stamped in a certain position on some transmission cases. I don’t recall noticing a C yet in that location so if anyone has an example then please let me know.
Eric
Service Bulletin 439 (page 1).jpg
Service Bulletin 439 (page 2).jpg
Service Bulletin 439 (page 3).jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
In June 2016 I said I'd never seen a date code on a 34703 65 trans case and that was true. But here is one (1-77) indicating casting in Jan 77.
Eric
Trans case (1-77).jpg
Trans case (underneath).jpg
Trans case (front).jpg |
RooDog, Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Speeding Big Twin wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am
In June 2016 I said I'd never seen a date code on a 34703 65 trans case and that was true. But here is one (1-77) indicating casting in Jan 77.
Eric
Trans case (front).jpg
Eric,
What is the significance of the number you have redacted?
....RooDog.... |
RUBONE, Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
RooDog wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:59 pm
Speeding Big Twin wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am
In June 2016 I said I'd never seen a date code on a 34703 65 trans case and that was true. But here is one (1-77) indicating casting in Jan 77.
Eric
Trans case (front).jpg
Eric,
What is the significance of the number you have redacted?
....RooDog....
It is a unique ID number and is traceable back to the bike it came from by H-D often referred to as an anti theft number. It is the same format as the ones used on forks and frames. |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
RooDog wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:59 pm
Speeding Big Twin wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am
In June 2016 I said I'd never seen a date code on a 34703 65 trans case and that was true. But here is one (1-77) indicating casting in Jan 77.
Eric
Trans case (front).jpg
Eric,
What is the significance of the number you have redacted?
....RooDog....
On the front of the trans is an additional original component identifying number, aka security code, aka anti-theft number, aka supplemental number. Some believe the practice began in 1963 while at least one publication said 1961. Several others say the additional ID began with 1962 models and I agree.
In the beginning, when used for Big Twins, it was stamped on the trans, frame and lower triple clamp and it consisted of one letter followed by either three or four numeric characters. Along with the SN and BNs, the additional ID on each bike was recorded at the factory and I imagine it may have been useful in warranty and/or recall situations. It was also of assistance to police when investigating bikes and/or parts thereof.
In the past, some forum members had all the additional ID on their bikes confirmed as original by H-D but as of more recent times it is unclear how much info the factory still has.
Eric |
PabloDogboy, Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Hi , this is my first post to the site as ive just joined, i have referred to your case number info a few times and thanks its been helpful. I picked up a case a couple of months ago thinking it was a 49 from the pictures i had, but when i got it in my hands i started thinking its a 39 as it has the bronze insert and the raised or rounded casting where the shifter is, can you confirm its 39 also date code is L 9 , i have pics but not sure how to attach yet. Thanks |
panhead, Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
i have pics but not sure how to attach yet
How to add a picture/attachment to your post |
PabloDogboy, Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
20211112_103059_resized.jpg 20211112_103025_resized.jpg
Hi , thanks I think the photos are loaded |
PabloDogboy, Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Hi , more pics I had to resize them 20211112_103053_resized.jpg 20211112_103025_resized.jpg all |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
PabloDogboy, again welcome to the forum. Thanks to panhead I can now see your photos. As you suspected the case was cast in 39 and in that year L indicated December so it may have been used as a 40 model.
Also notice the bosses for two mounting studs at lower left. Yours are the slimmer style and they too help identify the case as a late-39 casting as opposed to late-49.
Markings at the back of the case look like 40 and a horizontal 0. I’ve seen them several times before and my best guess is that they may have been stamped by an inspector as I mentioned above. According to someone else on the net a while ago the ‘40’ has something to do with a certain type of trans for 1940 models but he didn’t elaborate and I do not know if it’s true. Including yours, so far I’ve seen a 40 marking at the back of cases cast in April, May, June, August, September, November and December 1939. And March 1940.
Eric |
RUBONE, Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
My guess would be the "40" differentiates it from a '39 which had the odd one year only shift pattern (1-2-N-3-4) in a 4 speed with '40 going back to the earlier configuration (1-N-2-3-4) making it easy to see on an assembled unit on the assembly line. |
PabloDogboy, Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Hi , and thanks for the replies and confirmation of the case year , sorry its taken awhile to catch up on the messages.
Yes not nice looking welding but i have seen worse while investigating the year of the case
Only grabbed it . because im sure its better to have a case than nothing at all , i will continue to search for a 47 case for my pproject.
Thanks to all |
easykick, Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Hello,
Here is photos of the 1965 transmission case, it has a repair, has been chrome plated and looks to have mounting ears and bottom bosses removed. thumbnail_20220710_151938-1.jpg thumbnail_ATT00001 (2).jpg thumbnail_ATT00001.jpg |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Casting number 34703 65 was used for 65 thru early-77. Unfortunately I can’t narrow things down on this occasion because I don’t see extra ID on the front. Normally a 34703 65 case has an additional original component identifying number, aka security code, aka anti-theft number, stamped on the front just below where the lid attaches. For example B1234. Apart from the letters I, O and Q which seem to have been skipped, the letter on the front of a 34703 65 case could be anything from B thru W and it indicates what model year(s) the case could have been used for. But I can’t see any additional ID on the front of your case so it may have fallen victim to the polishing and plating process.
Below the casting number is a lone character but I’m not sure what it is. Maybe E or 2? But unfortunately it doesn’t help us and sometimes in that area you’ll instead find a lone 1 while others have 1E.
On top of the case appears to be the letter D? But it too doesn’t help much with the model year of the case and I’ve seen it on these cases for 65–66, 69–70 and 72–74.
Eric |
nifty, Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
easykick wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:09 pm
Hello,
Here is photos of the 1965 transmission case, it has a repair, has been chrome plated and looks to have mounting ears and bottom bosses removed. thumbnail_20220710_151938-1.jpgthumbnail_ATT00001 (2).jpgthumbnail_ATT00001.jpg
Hi easykick & Eric and anyone interested.
To best of my knowledge,
No -65 casting number case has bottom bosses (alignment guides for tin primary trans)
EDIT It appears likely that in late 77, for 78model year, the single-thickness, pressed, tophat-section -65A mount plate appeared.
So IMO the easykick trans has only had its ally primary ears removed and likely also the ID number when polished for chrome.
Nifty |
nifty, Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Here's a weirder one, a -78 casting number case, but Dec 1981 casting date.
IMO likely a spare part case, made much later to top up depleted spare parts inventory.
As a spare part case, it would not have a stamped ID number.
-78 case 81 date code.jpg
Nifty |
nifty, Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Speeding Big Twin wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am
In June 2016 I said I'd never seen a date code on a 34703 65 trans case and that was true. But here is one (1-77) indicating casting in Jan 77.
Eric
Trans case (1-77).jpg
Trans case (underneath).jpg
Trans case (front).jpg
Note also that with that particular trans case, the casting number appears to me to be raised, most other -65 casting numbers are indented.
Nifty |
RooDog, Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
That's a rotary top tranny. no?
A different casting all together.... |
nifty, Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
RooDog wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:22 am
That's a rotary top tranny. no?
A different casting all together....
No, its a ratchet lid, you can see the front edge of Ratchet lid with hex detent cap and part of neutral switch in pic.
Rotary top trans case has 34709 -79 casting number and lid has angled neutral switch at right front corner
34709 79 case number FX with mount.jpg
Nifty |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
nifty wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:47 am
easykick wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:09 pm
Hello,
Here is photos of the 1965 transmission case, it has a repair, has been chrome plated and looks to have mounting ears and bottom bosses removed. thumbnail_20220710_151938-1.jpgthumbnail_ATT00001 (2).jpgthumbnail_ATT00001.jpg
Hi easykick & Eric and anyone interested.
To best of my knowledge,
No -65 casting number case has bottom bosses (alignment guides for tin primary trans)
Even though at least some E65 bikes came with the early style mount plate.
At unknown time during 65 model year, the single-thickness, pressed, tophat-section -65 mount plate appeared.
So IMO the easykick trans has only had its ally primary ears removed and likely also the ID number when polished for chrome.
Nifty
Thanks Nifty. I agree no 65 casting number case has bottom bosses (alignment guides) and I should have addressed that at the time.
As for the single-thickness mounting plate, are you sure it appeared during the 65 model year? My 58–68 H-D parts catalog lists trans mounting plate #47698-65 for 65–68 and my 61–71 H-D parts catalog lists the same # for 65–71 but I don’t think it’s a single-thickness plate. I thought the first single-thickness plate was #47698-65A which is mentioned in a Service Bulletin I have for 1977.
Eric |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
nifty wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:16 am
Speeding Big Twin wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:53 am
In June 2016 I said I'd never seen a date code on a 34703 65 trans case and that was true. But here is one (1-77) indicating casting in Jan 77.
Eric
Trans case (1-77).jpg
Trans case (underneath).jpg
Trans case (front).jpg
Note also that with that particular trans case, the casting number appears to me to be raised, most other -65 casting numbers are indented.
Nifty
Here’s another one that appears raised and there appears to be a casting flaw (?) below the 347. The Jan 77 case appears to have the same thing under its 347?
Casting number.jpg
This case has ID on the front consistent with about a 75 model and you’ll notice the 3s have a round top like the 3s on the Jan 77 case as opposed to the flat-top 3 we normally see in 34703 65. Other characters in the casting number also changed although the differences aren’t as noticeable as they are with the 3s. This is something I’ve only noticed for 75 and 77 but only with a few transmissions and the casting number on most cases during those years had flat-top 3s. Maybe two different foundries?
Eric |
nifty, Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
Eric
Re trans plates, I shot from hip, have checked what I thought I knew, now unsure, I apologise, will start a separate post on trans plates. Unless there is already one somewhere here?
Re different foundries, I agree, very likely explains some of the casting and number differences
Here are some more -77 trans casting numbers, 2 different trans, casting numbers have reverted to indented.
34703 77 case number.jpg
ID number unknown
These next 2 pics are of same case
77 trans case casting #.jpg
77 trans case front.jpg
Y = circa 78, this is a 4speed case, but still has internal boss for inner end of Reverse idler shaft (un-machined)
Nifty |
Speeding Big Twin, Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:56 am Post subject: Re: Date codes and other info for some, not all, BT trans cases |
I don’t remember anyone doing a thread on trans plates yet. Jan Willem Boon has a picture of #47698-65 on his website but only one side. He says 65–79 and so does Palmer but SB M-718 mentions #47698-65A as well as carriage bolts and you’ll notice the carriage bolt PN has a -77 suffix.
Service Bulletin M-718.jpg
Also on Boon’s website you’ll find a photo of #47698-65A as well as photos of the next two plates: -65B; and -65C.
Eric |