Hilborn mechanical fuel injection

[Eb74UL]

Does anyone know someone or have any experience with running a Hilborn mechanical fuel injection on the street? Is this possible at all or would I be totally wasting my time?

[kitabel]

Totally wasting your time

[RooDog]

Are you just dreaming, or do you have a Hilborn in hand? If so, how about some pictures?
How would you drive the mechanical fuel pump?
Let's look into this before dismissing it, OK?
....RooDog....

[RUBONE]

All been done before, pump driven off the end of the camshaft or other timing gear, even tried off of end of crankshaft, tried on various dragsters over several decades. There was not enough gain over a carburetor to make it practical. If it had been a good idea we would see lots of evidence of its use and even see it on the street.

[kitabel]

I've looked into it.
This refers to the traditional “stack” Algon, Crower, En-derle, Hilborn, Kinsler, Lucas, &c. race-only systems. Some may still be available, but are very expensive and (as they exist) completely impractical for street use.
There are no “street” mechanical systems, except original factory Bosch, ALFA-Romeo, Lucas, Mercedes, Volvo, &c., which are extremely complex and difficult to adapt.
What’s missing from using these as a street system, and what all of these systems lack: they have no idea what’s going on inside the engine except for RPM (and the pump output doesn’t match the engine demand for fuel 1:1, but much higher, about RPM2) and throttle position.
There is no input for vacuum, no choke, no idle mixture, the mixture curve is pre-set, no compensation for altitude, air temperature, air density, or water temperature, no tip-in, no power system, no accelerator pump, &c.
After you make an injector, pump size, bypass, barrel valve &c. adjustment the mixture can be fairly close (if you have a vacuum gauge, EGT, wide-band, &c.) - but only for that particular throttle opening, engine speed, vacuum, gear ratio, load, grade, temperature, &c. When these variables change, you have to manually input every one of these variables, again... as you drive. If not, the resultant mixture is more accurate than pouring gas into the throttles from a sprinkling can, but not much.
If you want to use a mechanical system on the street, it’s easier (viz., only extremely difficult and expensive, but not impossible) to begin with a Bosch mechanical system from a pre-electronic Mercedes L6, then modify every single function in the pump.
If you insist, expect to spend lots of money, have many unanswered questions, hard starting, irregular idle, very poor mileage and plug fouling.

[RooDog]

I've looked into it.
This refers to the traditional “stack” Algon, Crower, En-derle, Hilborn, Kinsler, Lucas, &c. race-only systems. Some may still be available, but are very expensive and (as they exist) completely impractical for street use.
There are no “street” mechanical systems, except original factory Bosch, ALFA-Romeo, Lucas, Mercedes, Volvo, &c., which are extremely complex and difficult to adapt.
What’s missing from using these as a street system, and what all of these systems lack: they have no idea what’s going on inside the engine except for RPM (and the pump output doesn’t match the engine demand for fuel 1:1, but much higher, about RPM2) and throttle position.
There is no input for vacuum, no choke, no idle mixture, the mixture curve is pre-set, no compensation for altitude, air temperature, air density, or water temperature, no tip-in, no power system, no accelerator pump, &c.
After you make an injector, pump size, bypass, barrel valve &c. adjustment the mixture can be fairly close (if you have a vacuum gauge, EGT, wide-band, &c.) - but only for that particular throttle opening, engine speed, vacuum, gear ratio, load, grade, temperature, &c. When these variables change, you have to manually input every one of these variables, again... as you drive. If not, the resultant mixture is more accurate than pouring gas into the throttles from a sprinkling can, but not much.
If you want to use a mechanical system on the street, it’s easier (viz., only extremely difficult and expensive, but not impossible) to begin with a Bosch mechanical system from a pre-electronic Mercedes L6, then modify every single function in the pump.
If you insist, expect to spend lots of money, have many unanswered questions, hard starting, irregular idle, very poor mileage and plug fouling.

And the problem is?

What's not to like?

Seriously, though, very thorough and thoughtful...

Thank You....RooDog....

[kitabel]

Electronic conversion (MegaSquirt) can be done, but rather than actual Hilborn parts, far cheaper to use throttle bodies from big Ninjas.
All EFI needs a clean electrical signal. I don't think it will work on a generator system with shaky output at low speed, an alternator and a BIG battery would be better.
I have aftermarket programmable software to re-configure the injection on my turbo 2JZ-GTE engine. It runs great, but it was tuned on a dyno ($$$) by an expert (which I'm not!).

[Eb74UL]

Thanks to all for answers, exactly what I was expecting to hear, If I had someone say done it here is how, I would give it a shot. Still planning on running the set up with an EFI... Picture for RooGog.

[Eb74UL]

Sorry guys for the size of that picture, tried 3 times to make it easier to visualiuze but I failed!

[Hogey]

Thats oK. Roo is not a Gog. Yes i have seen one one a street run harley. But not for long.

[Hogey]

I cant pot pics to dumb. Roo is Roo Dog

[kitabel]

EFI would begin by replacing that Hilborn pump (PG150a?) with a constant pressure electric pump @ 43.5 psi (the current OEM automotive standard). All aftermarket software either requires or permits this pressure as a pre-set.
The Hilborn pump delivers fuel at a rate roughly proportionate to RPM^2 (delivery @ 6,000 RPM is 3,600% vs. 1,000 RPM).

[Eb74UL]

Well... that's how much damage a typo will do... Still appreciate all the comments.
Kitabel:
You may not like this but I will run an electric pump in my gas tank and simply run the fuel through the Hilborn pump and run an EFI as if it were fed by the Hilborn pump... Some will call me a fake but I like the look of the Hilborn and since I have it and I do want to use the bike...

Hell I almost typed "Hilporn"...

[kitabel]

Why is that fake? You own it, use it any way you want, I think it's a great idea.