Thrust washer

[fourthgear]

I have another quest for knowlage from all of you. I have a early Mod. Pan and it has a Cam thrust washer that has the tabs on it . I will be changing the Cam and thrust washer and was woundering if its the right one . Book shows just a round one , does it matter ? I believe my shovels had this type of thrust washer if memory serves me . Thanks for any insight on this.

[mbskeam]

hello,

58 and up use this thrust plate with a thrust washer. the plate is because HD went to the torrington type bearing. and there is no thrust surface on it. like the early bushing had.

Do you have bushing or bearing?

mbskeam

[fourthgear]

mbskeam
I have a bushing now , but have to change it to the needle bearing because I bought a Crane cam and they are all set up for this bearing . Nice to find out when you open the cam package , I don't remember anything about that fact in anything I read when I looked it up to order it . My mistake on not researching it enough before buying and I should have asked in this format before I did. Live and learn , I'm so used to the old days when you got everything from your friendly HD dealer.So basically they had the wrong Thrust washer in there . I thought as much , oh well . Thanks .

[King]

Hi forthgear

I just ran into the same bushing hassle you did. I had called Crane and the guy there explained that Crane only made cams that fit the needle (Torrington) bearings and bacally advised me to check another manufacturer out.

I might be a stubborn old bastard but I don't like mucking about in the cases if i can avoid it and think the fewer needles in the gear chest the better.

Well it turned out that Andrews had a cam with the characteristics I was looking for and their literature implied that it would fit my 51 (solid bronze) bushing. I got the cam and no way did it fit.

So, I took the Andrews cam down to the machine shop and had about .002" ground off the journal (miked to match the original) and it slipped into my case just fine. Problem solved.

To get around the gear lash hassle with the pinion gear my mechanic was able to press off the drive gear on the Andrews cam and press on my original. Another problem solved and $$ saved from not buying a new pinion gear.

Then he installed the cam and checked out the end play through the open lifter holes, rummaged through his box of stuff, and found a thrust washer with the appropriate thickness slid it on and that was that. My washer is just a plain "washer" with no tabs.

That's the story on my cam change. To complete the job I regated the old oil can hydraulic pushrods to the "museum box" and I installed solids. The valve train is tight and quiet and so far so good. I haven't gotten in enough hours to rate the performance yet but will when I do.

Good luck with the new cam.

King

PS: I forgot to mention replacing the lifter wheels. With their needle bearings they are potential grenades. So even though there was no signs of wear on my old ones I replaced them with a good American Made set.

[DuoDave]

I don't think there is any reason why the bushing can't be honed out to take the needle bearing cams, but the more experienced guys will know if there are any pitfalls involved in this.

[Jack_Hester]

DuoDave -

As I am only familiar with stock components, I don't know what the actual shaft sizes are, on these aftermarket cams. But, if 0.002" OS is the difference, there's plenty of meat (even on a worn bushing) to ream it to enough clearance for one of these. That way, the costs for the shop work are greatly reduced. I've got a NOS FL cam, and some stock 70's model Shovelhead cams. I will mic them and make a note of the difference in shaft size. I deal so much with bushing engines, that I rarely get my hands on one with stock needle cam rollers.

Jack

[mbskeam]

hello,
the rivera book lists the sizes as:

57 and earlier bushing size .8112-.8125

58 and up needle size .8122-.8125


funny how "All" the parts books show cams 48-69. but not one of them says there is a diff. from 58 and up. They all list them under the same part #'s.
you would think that the parts book would read cams: 48-57 and 58-69

I seam to recall that my andrews was .8123 or something like this.

yes you can ream the bushing to take the bigger size.I just love adjustable stubby reamers.

mbskeam

[fourthgear]

Yo , Thanks for all the info guys , I already had the case sent out to have the bushing replaced with a needle bearing . There are pro's and cons of both type bearings . The Machinest doing the job is set up for doing it , he has done alot of them and said none have come back to him with any problems . I don't like messing around in there , thats for sure , but they use a lot of needle bearings in these motors now . I guess you can say what ya will about bushing type bearings or Needle type , I wish I would have researched it more . Thanks for all the info .

Has any one had the needle type come apart on them?

[327nova]

I believe they changed to needle bearings because the new FLH valve springs had more tension which ate up the bushing. The B138 Torrington holds up well. I think Harley discovered that when thet tried to penny pinch and used some crappy INA bearing in the early nineties.
Tom

[58flh]

They changed to the torington-rollers because it was faster & EASIER!.--(nobody had to ream or scrape the bushing to fit nicely on the cam!--IT SAVED TIME! & TIME IS $$$$!.--A NEEDLE-BERING is just a BOMB thats lying in wait!--& when it blows there will be a significant amount of DAMAGE$$$$!. PICTURE if your ROLLERS BROKE APART on the LIFTERS!--ALL thoes NEEDLES in theres going between gears & riding that OIL LOGFLUME into the CASES!---THROW the TORRINGTON BUSHING AWAY!--& Build it PROPERLY!--(I run a 58flh,& 24yrs. back when I rebuilt her I stuck with a bronze bushing ,That DAD already put in there when the bike was NEW!--He changed the cam after 1000-miles & saw this &(he said what the F--K,There going backwards!)---To each his own I guess, but thats just in your face not-right!---RICHIE