Can't set up flywheel endplay

[jlbugs]

Hi everyone - first post here...

Putting a 52 FL motor back together with my father-in-law (who has his own 52, but didn't have to do the bottom end) and we're running into some issues. Some background:

- Cases have matching belly numbers and flywheels are original and correct
- Put new Jims races in both sides and had them line lapped at a reputable shop
- Put new Jims sprocket and pinion shafts and a new rod kit (with crank pin, nuts, etc.) into original flywheels and had them balanced
- Using new V-Twin bearing kits on both sides
- Some pictures here, for your viewing pleasure... http://www.xlfotos.info/jakebuganski/52-panhead-motor/

Yesterday we attempted to set up the endplay on the flywheels. Started with 0.86 thrust washers, and the flywheels would not move or turn when we bolted up the cases. Went a few sizes down and had the same problem. Then we put the smallest ones we had in (0.64) and had some space on the pinion side (as evidenced by the outermost washer moving around) and the flywheels turned, but would not move side-to-side. Even tapping with a rubber mallet would not move it over against the right side. Installing the pinion side first, yeilds the oppsite result - pushed flush right but won't slide left.

Any ideas? We beat oursevles up over it for a few hours, and we still don't have any ideas. At one point we took the thrust washers out completely and still could not get movement side to side. The flywheels turn nicely with the 0.64 washers and with no washers, in all configurations (flush right, flush left, etc.) Just can't move the flywheel assembly side to side to set up the endplay and fit the correct washers...

[RUBONE]

The most common issue with no movement is the ROLLERS ARE TOO TIGHT. When the rollers do not have enough running clearance they will crab slightly to one side moving the flywheels to one side and locking them up. Out of line races will cause the same. Did your "reputable " shop have the crank (or at least the shafts!) and the rollers with races in hand? If not you are back to square one. There is no way to fit bearings without the actual bearings on hand. Period, end of story!
Robbie

[jlbugs]

the shop had the shafts and bearings... actually had to trade my stock bearings to them for oversized on the pinion side to fit after line lapping. Would have given them the whole thing, but the rod kit hadn't come in yet, so it was all still in pieces.

I had a feeling that's what was going on, though. I AM starting to question whether or not the job was done right. Although I seem to think I fit the bearings in the races, and the shafts in the bearings without the crank, and nothing seemed overly-tight...

[steinauge]

I have had this same problem several times over the years.What it turned out to be was the shoulder on the aftermarket races was thicker than standard resulting in an .062" washer on both sides giving no endplay.I eventually made up a batch of thinner than standard washers to cure this problem.Install the flywheel assy with no washers,coat the race shoulder faces with prussian blue(or magic marker) gradually tighten the case bolts and rotate the flywheels as you go.If you get a line in the bluing it is the flywheel washer pins hitting. .If it turns out you need thinner washers PM me and I will send you a couple.Be advised that you will have to trim the washer pin on the flywheels as it is about .060" tall.The correct way to deal with this is to check shoulder thickness on the race before installation and machine as needed,but with the races in and lapped plan B may be indicated------HTH.

[Cotten]

JLBugs!

To determine if your races are truly in line, you can apply the Prussian Blue to a large diameter ground shaft long enough to extend through both races, carefully insert it without touching, lay it against the races, spin it once, and then gingerly remove it, without disturbing the "wipe".
Inspection should then tell you the degree of contact, which hopefully will be wide for both races.

I found a great alternative to Prussian Blue in a dumpster behind a tavern:
"Dry-Erase" felt-tip markers, such as used for daily-special signboards, make for excellent contact inspection!

....Cotten

[jlbugs]

thanks for all the suggestions. gonna run this all by my FIL and see what we come up with. I'll keep you posted...

[RUBONE]

jlbugs,
If you rotate the crank one direction , set up a dial indicator on the output shaft, then rotate the other direction and find that it moves over, it is the tight roller or misalignment issue which causes it to screw itself to one side or the other.
Robbie

[jlbugs]

And the answer was...



Flywheels weren't trued properly. So much for thinking I'd gone with someone I didn't have to worry about for the job.

Took it back to the guy who line-lapped it, because he said he'd have no problem freeing up some room if the bearings were too tight (which is what I ended up thinking it was...) He put the crank on a dial indicator and it had between 0.007 and 0.009 of movement... and apparently 0.002 is the max. I let him keep it and true it himself, and he got it to within 0.001.

Anyway, got it all back, set up the endplay last week, and just sealed up the cases a little bit ago.

Thanks again to everyone here for the input!

[Panhead Ed]

Way to go your patients saved you a broken left case !
Back in the late 60s when choppers were in thier first generation some very confused builders "and I use the term loosely" thought they could true the flywheels by rolling them across the kitchen floor , and if they didnt wobble too much , in they go , resulting in broken left cases and more bad feelings and alot of wasted $$$ which in most cases guys didnt have anyway ......
YOU LEARNED A VERY VALUABLE LESSON ,, check , check , and check again ..
Just becuz Butches party is this weekend dont get in a hurry to be embarassed by the campfire with all the expert beer enduced advice that would come your way .....
do it right the first time and its done for a long time....................... Ed
Most modern mechs. dont have a clue about trueing flywheels, they come in a box just like on TV " parts hangers not mechanics "