Metal in my oil question *Now with Pics*

[tickface]

Quick rundown, 51 Pan with Shovelheads, lower end rebuilt in March by Truett and Osborn, bored .60 over, new top end, does not smoke or burn any oil, no signs of metal at all in the cam chest. The bike runs excellent, starts first kick, no abnormal noises. I run a Sifton pre-filter in the return line and every time I check it I get a lot of metal chips. I can clean it, change the oil and then run it for 50-60 miles and have another bunch of metal in it. I know that I am going to have to pull the motor, and that its almost impossible to diagnose things thru a computer, but I was hoping someone may have an idea/guess where it could be coming from.

Thank You in advance

Pre-filter

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[Ohio-Rider]

Are the chip metal or aluminum? How many miles since the rebuild? After a rebuild, as the new rings wear themselves in a small amount of metal can occasionally be found in the oil, but should stop within a thousands miles or so. I wouldn’t start tearing anything apart quite yet. -Steve

[tickface]

Thank you for the reply, the shavings are steel, I probably have 5K since the re-build.

[FlatHeadSix]

if the shavings will stick to a magnet that certainly narrows down the sources.

when you assembled the engine did you do several complete revolutions of the assembly on the bench to check for clearance? Are the T&O wheels strokers?, if so, are you using stroker plates?

mike

[NightShift]

Dear Tickface,
How clean is the oil tank?

'Spectful,

[tickface]

if the shavings will stick to a magnet that certainly narrows down the sources.

when you assembled the engine did you do several complete revolutions of the assembly on the bench to check for clearance? Are the T&O wheels strokers?, if so, are you using stroker plates?

mike

Thanks for the reply Mike,
The filter has a magnet in it and it has plenty of shavings on it after I run the motor. I did not assemble the lower end, T&O did the assembly, the wheels are stock 74"

Dear Tickface,
How clean is the oil tank?

'Spectful,

Thanks for the reply,
I completely cleaned the tank before I put the bike back together, I am going to clean/vacuum it out again to see if it will help.

[NightShift]

Dear Tickface,
I guess that means its the new motor then.
Steel means thrust washers but your cylinder walls and rings are magnetic too.

'Spectful,

[RICOCHET]

If there are pieces large enough to be like flakes then I'd be at least pulling off the cam cover to have a look in there. Normal wear doesn't cause chips like in steel on steel. Seem it's only a matter of time (probably short) before something gives.

Dick

[tickface]

If there are pieces large enough to be like flakes then I'd be at least pulling off the cam cover to have a look in there. Normal wear doesn't cause chips like in steel on steel. Seem it's only a matter of time (probably short) before something gives.

Dick

Thanks for the reply Dick,

I did pull the cam cover and there was no sign of any metal. I am aware that it is not normal to have metal in my oil, just wondering if anyone has any ideas as to possibilities of its inception.

[FlatHeadSix]

Steel means thrust washers but your cylinder walls and rings are magnetic too.

and the wrist pins and keepers, and the rods, and....

thrust washers are a likely source, check your end play on the pinion and sprocket shafts to see if anything has loosend up beyond spec.

the nightmare of all nightmares would be if it tossed one of the piston pin keepers and you're dragging a wrist pin against a cylinder wall, lets hope that's not it!

keep us posted

mike

[old52pan]

Pull the plugs also and poke around with a magnetic probe.if you find any shavings,pull the jugs. tim

[Cotten]

If we can dismiss the cam chest and oiltank as sources, then we must psych out where the next most likely "collision" occurs.

Different metals cut differently.
Under magnification we may be able to see if the "chips" are bright sheared steel cuttings or dark granular cast iron chunks, such as would be caused by a scraping or gouging action.
Or they may be spalled flakes of metal, such as is caused by a rubbing interference. An iridescence is a signature of heat.
Washing the particles of of the filter onto a glass dish or slide, and then allowing the solvent to evaporate would make them most viewable.

Assessing the lower end first, cut shards of steel with an absence of bronze or aluminum would make me dismiss common problems like the flywheel nuts hitting the cam bushing or web in the case.
But steel splinters alone would still suggest the possibility that the flywheels are nicking the rod beams.
Spalled flakes of hard steel, however, would suggest that races and flywashers are binding and making their own clearances.

Working upward, a wristpin problem would show brass if it were spinning its bushing, but not if it worked out through a keeper.
Thats very unusual for a fresh crank, however I have witnessed spiral lock itself fracture and score a cylinder after only 3000 miles.
In such a case I would only expect to find cast iron, for a while anyway.
The scenario for a broken ring would be the same.
But both would quickly result in smoking from oil blow-by.

In the heads, the absence of brass leaves the possibility of the spring collars making clearance into the pan covers, as well as spalling at the rocker arms upon the valvestems.

At this point I can only suggest monitoring the contents of your filter often, with something at least as strong as a Harbor Freight eyeloupe.

....Cotten
PS: Sadly, my money would be on the crank races and flywashers.
Especially if the machine leans excessively upon the jiffystand.

[rrhawg]

Did you look in the breather gear when you had the cam cover off? If it spit a wristpin keeper you should find pieces of it in the gear.
Also did you clean and check the oil lines when you cleaned out the oil tank? I know of more than one occasion that the chrome inside oil lines flaked off.
Rich

[tickface]

*update*
So I've ridden a good 4-500 miles since the last posting, no power loss, starts easily, no weird sounds, no smoke, no metal in the cylinders, no metal in breather, ran 5 quarts straight thru to a bucket, and still a ton of steel in the pre-filter. I'll try to get a pic as well as a magnified pic tomorrow, I think you'll be amazed how much there is. Thank you all for your replies.

[tickface]

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