Crank pin roller retainer material

Bottom End (crankcases and crankshaft)
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Tunglegubbin
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Crank pin roller retainer material

#1

Post by Tunglegubbin »

I bought a new set of connecting rods, complete with crank pin and bearings.

My engine guy just put together the parts I delivered to him, but had to re-align the rods and hone the wrist pin bushing.
So the advantage of new stuff was maybe not worth the money.

Recently I stumbled across the information that you cannot use aluminum roller retainers with the original steel thrust washers.
You have to switch to the newer bronze washers, or put in a steel roller retainer.
My new connecting rod set of course has the aluminum retainer, and I have my original flywheels with steel washers.

Am I in trouble? Do I need to take it apart and start over? Or is it just humbug?

/Mikael
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#2

Post by Cotten »

Tunglegubbin!

Although common sense tells you both the aluminum cages and bronze thrust washers have their own inherent inferiorities to steels, however I never opened a machine that suggested either were instantly incompatible with the earlier designs.

The first aluminum cages with "interrupted" bearing surfaces seemed to pick up particulates and wear the rollers barrel-shaped.
But then I am told the Factory eventually went to barrel-shaped roller on purpose!

If there were a significant incompatibility, it should be universal by now. Where did you read it?

....Cotten
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#3

Post by Tunglegubbin »

http://books.google.se/books?id=woSJ8CF ... CDUQ6AEwAA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure if the link will work.


"Donny's Unauthorized Technical Guide to Harley Davidson 1936-2008, Volym 1"
By Donny Petersen, page 282
RUBONE
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#4

Post by RUBONE »

H-D used aluminum cages and steel washers on Sportsters for all the '60s. They also used aluminum cages and steel washers on all their race bikes through the KR lifespan and into the XRs.
I guess someone should have warned them....
jnjlabs
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#5

Post by jnjlabs »

my opinion only... bearing retainers need to be checked to make sure they are at least .010 or more below any rod or other surface when building anything, nothing last forever just me that's how Iv'e done it for the past thirty or so years. Have taken apart many engines with not much left of the aluminum cages and the crank pins worn through the hardening, some people just run them into the ground. :P
58flh
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#6

Post by 58flh »

My 69 is put together with Alum.-cage & steels thrust!---I rebuilt it that way in the 80s & it runs Very good!--Have a ton of miles on it & it starts up real easy!--3-4-Prime kicks,& n1-hot kick. I had to put it back to almost stock-specs. It was my quarter-pounder for a few yrs.--So I slowed her down & made it streetable so the ol-Lady could kick-it & tool around.--Im not sure but I believe the AMF-Shortster, Had Alum.-caged rollers.-I remember doing one many moons ago & the pistons literaly could pull them 1/8 to 3/16s in the bottom-End with the barrels removed!---& It still RAN! :shock: /Really it sounded like S--T,but started!.Anyway The cages were obsolete but I did find some mashed matieral that looked like Alum.-Like I said Not 100% sure on this!----Richie 8)
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#7

Post by jnjlabs »

as does my 69 it has s&s wheels in it with alluiminum cages and I have ridden it hard and rebuilt it many times for 30 years or so, also rebuilt countless engines using aluminum with no issues they are all still in service.
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#8

Post by shelbyinparadise »

Has any one had trouble with the UL rod kits sold by V-Twin? a customer has had a motor lock up after many trouble free miles, and I have my thoughts that the retainers were of the powdered metal variety (sintered steel) as the pockets separated from the base of the retainer on all 4 retainers. Then two of the base pieces fell apart into short arcs. this left two washer like pieces and a whole lot of fragments that locked up the rods. looks like 3 hole S&S crankpin, T&O flywheels, sold as a kit in 2003. I really feel that the retainers came apart first and the outer row of female rod with the two washer like pieces of retainer both crankpin and rod race surface was still smooth while sprocket side rod bearings locked up with pin and other bearings.

I have never built a motor with out using real steel retainers from H-D. Any thoughts? Shelby
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Re: Crank pin roller retainer material

#9

Post by Cotten »

Welcome Shelby!

Sounds like a "smoking gun" piece of evidence to me.

.....Cotten
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