Oil lines
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Oil lines
I bought some chrome lines for my 49 panhead from an ebay seller. I knew that as I'm running a S&S oil pump the supply and return lines would be too long but the breather should fit. The three lines are from at least two different makers. One had double flares and the other two only single. Is single flare strong enough? What degree is the flare? I've done plenty of flares for my cars but these fittings look a little different. I think I can shorten the supply line and maybe the return too. The lines feel very hard and stiff so I'm wondering how they'll take to the die on my oldskool Imperial Eastman flaring tool. Does anyone know where I can get flexible braided lines? I have a oil filter to install also. All opinions welcome.
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Re: Oil lines
Well Mr Mach 1,Mr Mach1 wrote: .... All opinions welcome.
One opinion might be to look for a real pump.
....Cotten
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Re: Oil lines
You mean the S&S pump is inferior? I assumed it was a step up.Cotten wrote:Well Mr Mach 1,Mr Mach1 wrote: .... All opinions welcome.
One opinion might be to look for a real pump.
....Cotten
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Re: Oil lines
The S&S pump is not inferior. It's every bit as good as the OEM pump. But you will have to deal with things like modifying your oil lines to make them line up.
-Craig
-Craig
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Re: Oil lines
Folks,
OEM pumps almost always outlived many motors.
Until they started making them out of aluminum.
And when they added more volume as well, motor life was not significantly increased.
Eventually, even if your pile o' parts is rad custom,
your investment is still better preserved if some of it is still the real thing.
An opinion was asked for, and I gave it.
Forgive me if it isn't what everybody hears on the street, or at the bar, or at the parts counter.
....Cotten
OEM pumps almost always outlived many motors.
Until they started making them out of aluminum.
And when they added more volume as well, motor life was not significantly increased.
Eventually, even if your pile o' parts is rad custom,
your investment is still better preserved if some of it is still the real thing.
An opinion was asked for, and I gave it.
Forgive me if it isn't what everybody hears on the street, or at the bar, or at the parts counter.
....Cotten
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Re: Oil lines
Thanks, I'm glad to hear your opinion. As a newbie I carry over assumptions from my automotive experience . I saw what I think is an iron pump in the box of scraps that came with the bike. Didnt know if it was any good. I agree that the more genuine parts on the bike the better. Maybe later on I'll look to rebuilding and installing it.Cotten wrote:Folks,
OEM pumps almost always outlived many motors.
Until they started making them out of aluminum.
And when they added more volume as well, motor life was not significantly increased.
Eventually, even if your pile o' parts is rad custom,
your investment is still better preserved if some of it is still the real thing.
An opinion was asked for, and I gave it.
Forgive me if it isn't what everybody hears on the street, or at the bar, or at the parts counter.
....Cotten
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Re: Oil lines
First of all I suggest you STOP getting your parts from E-bay! Find a reputable local bike shop that can get you what you need from reputable after market suppliers. If you're not doing a AMCA correct, "Restoration" you don't need to track down correct OEM parts, although they are preferred when you can find them. A reputable shop should have catalogs from most of the major suppliers of after market parts & they can do the proper research to help ensure that they are compatible. The problem you're encountering is common when trying to mix OEM and after market. "ie" rigid OEM oil lines don't match up to after market pumps & fittings. All of the major after market suppliers sell flexible oil lines as well as rigid ones. They also sell just the fittings & bulk line etc. If you intend to use a stock style filter it will need the rigid lines and the adapter fittings that change from the flare to the o-ring, these are all available from V-Twin, Midwest, & others. Trying to re-bend & re-flare hard chromed lines can be done but is a challenge, its easy to crack the flares. The requirement for single or double or rolled flare will depend entirely on what fitting you are trying to match up to. It is often easier to change the fittings than try to make the lines work. (My suggestion is buy a set of compatible fittings & lines. It doesn't matter if they're rigid or flexible as long as they are compatible and if you go to a local shop they can get you what you need to match up with your tank & pump.) A complete set of fittings & lines should only run around $100.00 to $200.00 If you're going to run a filter & or cooler make that decision 1st and get everything you need so it is all compatible. Getting junk from E-bay is usually more trouble than its worth. Find a good local shop to deal with & save yourself a lot of headaches. Everyone has their own opinions and they're all going to be different, for what its worth this is mine & I've been building bikes for over 40 years. The internet has its uses but its always buyer beware, at least with a local shop if a part isn't right you can take it back.
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Re: Oil lines
Cotton,
You stated once that pans were 'under engineered' by the moco, so i guess the original steel pump delivery is more than adequate for them, oiling thru the crank once very 360 deg i believe (please correct if I'm wrong, I'm not all knowing).
Having said that modern replacement internals seem to be of greater strength and durability and possibly require the S&S type pump.....maybe over engineered now??
Is putting an S&S type pump overkill on oem engines, I have read about over oiling issues in the top end.
And yes i tend to agree, the original pump would outlast an aluminum job....tougher material i guess so wear rates would be down.
........I wonder if people run oem pumps on engines with these 'modern' internals??
You stated once that pans were 'under engineered' by the moco, so i guess the original steel pump delivery is more than adequate for them, oiling thru the crank once very 360 deg i believe (please correct if I'm wrong, I'm not all knowing).
Having said that modern replacement internals seem to be of greater strength and durability and possibly require the S&S type pump.....maybe over engineered now??
Is putting an S&S type pump overkill on oem engines, I have read about over oiling issues in the top end.
And yes i tend to agree, the original pump would outlast an aluminum job....tougher material i guess so wear rates would be down.
........I wonder if people run oem pumps on engines with these 'modern' internals??
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Re: Oil lines
Why do you think greater strength and/or durability would require more oil? Just wondering where you are going here? Despite the better materials (questionable at best) all bearing surfaces are the same. So are you inferring that tougher materials require more oil?Having said that modern replacement internals seem to be of greater strength and durability and possibly require the S&S type pump....
Robbie
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Re: Oil lines
58Bob!
If I used the term "under-engineered",
I meant to imply that their dinosaur characteristics are over-built, imbueing the hardware with remarkable stamina, and if nothing else, repairability to return to duty.
Modern engineers would certainly trim all fat until every piece only lasted until they wanted you to buy a new one: "Over-engineered" would mean it would fall apart like the Blues Brothers' chase-scene car the minute it ran out of warranty.
The notion that more is always better, when it comes to oil, should be examined more closely in its own topic thread:
The earliest "pumps" were designed to limit the oil in the motor, and the evolution of pumps, both H-D and Indian, faced the problem of eliminating the oil.
....Cotten
If I used the term "under-engineered",
I meant to imply that their dinosaur characteristics are over-built, imbueing the hardware with remarkable stamina, and if nothing else, repairability to return to duty.
Modern engineers would certainly trim all fat until every piece only lasted until they wanted you to buy a new one: "Over-engineered" would mean it would fall apart like the Blues Brothers' chase-scene car the minute it ran out of warranty.
The notion that more is always better, when it comes to oil, should be examined more closely in its own topic thread:
The earliest "pumps" were designed to limit the oil in the motor, and the evolution of pumps, both H-D and Indian, faced the problem of eliminating the oil.
....Cotten
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Re: Oil lines
(Ain't touching the Oil Pump Junk.)
What I did to my "Pile-O-parts" was use 3/8" brake line and a Rigid bender. Since I also have an S&S pump I just whooped up my own set of lines. I did a couple of things to my lines that you might not have a option on... For one, the 3/8" line is a will fit to the HD nipple nuts is a little loose. I actually Swadged the end of the line to make it larger and fit the nut better then flared them. (Flaring them with work without swaging.) The flares will not match until you tighten the nipple nuts.
Your bike is looking really nice.
What I did to my "Pile-O-parts" was use 3/8" brake line and a Rigid bender. Since I also have an S&S pump I just whooped up my own set of lines. I did a couple of things to my lines that you might not have a option on... For one, the 3/8" line is a will fit to the HD nipple nuts is a little loose. I actually Swadged the end of the line to make it larger and fit the nut better then flared them. (Flaring them with work without swaging.) The flares will not match until you tighten the nipple nuts.
Your bike is looking really nice.
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Re: Oil lines
Rubone,
......not going anywhere.....
it was more questions than statements.
Cotton,
i missunderstood your statement, I thought 'underengineered' was when a product was not as robust as necessary for the application, cheers.
......not going anywhere.....
it was more questions than statements.
Cotton,
i missunderstood your statement, I thought 'underengineered' was when a product was not as robust as necessary for the application, cheers.
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Re: Oil lines
58Bob!
I don't remember how I used the phrase, so I missunderstand me too.
But the whole crux of the biscuit is,..
from my humble perspective,...
designing an elementary contraption where the pieces can survive more grief than necessary is desireable in the very long run.
It is the simplest way to approach engine design.
When optimization, minimization, and other tweaks for go-faster performance is desired, it IS in the hardware if you can find it.
How else did American motorcycle competitions become such legends, before there was a significant "performance aftermarket" to spawn and support it?
Late Twentieth-Century beancounting, which barely saved the last American marque, surgically removed such philosophy, perhaps forever,... perhaps if we are lucky!
...Cotten
I don't remember how I used the phrase, so I missunderstand me too.
But the whole crux of the biscuit is,..
from my humble perspective,...
designing an elementary contraption where the pieces can survive more grief than necessary is desireable in the very long run.
It is the simplest way to approach engine design.
When optimization, minimization, and other tweaks for go-faster performance is desired, it IS in the hardware if you can find it.
How else did American motorcycle competitions become such legends, before there was a significant "performance aftermarket" to spawn and support it?
Late Twentieth-Century beancounting, which barely saved the last American marque, surgically removed such philosophy, perhaps forever,... perhaps if we are lucky!
...Cotten
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Re: Oil lines
If a little is good, AND more is better, THAN to much is just enough, right?....bosheff
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Re: Oil lines
Getting back to the subject,Get some braided lines.Theres a few companys that have them and it will save you alot of trouble.And on the subject of the S&S pump,if anything I thought my oil pressure stayed the same from the stock pump.And theres nothing wrong with an S&S pump on a pan.I have been running it for 16 years and never a problem or leaks.