No Oil Leaving Oil Pump!

[Alford]

Today's update on my 53 Panhead:

She fired up again, and since my oil tank's supply and return line are both at the bottom of a round oil tank, i couldn't look inside to check for circulation, so i disconnected the rubber lines from to my oil pump and found that the pump is not pumping oil into the tank! where should i go from here? there is oil in the tank by the way

[Bigincher]

Is it pumping oil to the motor?!! The oil has to go somewhere---- if it's not returning, good chance it's not feeding. Better check that before you seize up your motor and do permanent damage.

EDIT: Just read other thread on oil shooting from breather. Perhaps the breather gear is not correctly timed.

[Hauula Pan]

A lot is going to depend on what kind of oil pump you are running, stock? correct year? after market? different pumps have different ways in which they scavenge oil back to the tank. Does your oil light go out or do you have good pressure to the engine? If you are pumping oil to the engine and not back out you'll probably be building up some pressure in the cases and out the breather into the primary. Also what style timing cover do you have? Some have a filter in them and some don't. Check for clogs in lines and screens etc. With older bikes many parts get changed over time and not all are compatible. If your pump is working pumping oil to the engine and not scavenging check your clearances on the scavenge gears and cover etc. and make sure no passages are blocked. Good luck.

[Alford]

Here are some pictures of my setup... I sure hope I haven't hurt anything... When I ran it, the top end started getting a little louder and I shut it off every time. No more warm ups for now!

I think it's a shovelhead pump. And I don't have an oil light or gauge.

I don't have anyone else to talk to about this stuff.. The help here is much appreciated!!!

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[FlatHeadSix]

good photos Alford
This has nothing to do with your oil problem but I was kind of curious about your timing. You have a stock timer with no control wire or even a spring to hold it at full advance, what is keeping the timer from swinging back and forth and changing the spark advance position? Can you grab the timer post and rotate the timer?, or is it locked at full advance somehow?

just curious

mike

[Alford]

Mike, all i can say is that i can rotate the distributor by hand and it likes to run fully rotated counter clockwise, retarded i'm assuming?

[panz4ever]

Clockwise is retarded, counter is full advance. To keep it from slipping, just get a spring at the hardware store and run it from the end of the timer to the generator strap. Quick and easy. Not pretty but it works.

Re: oil...At this point you probably have nothing to lose if you are not sure your gears are timed correctly. But I am wondering if the key that goes on the shaft for the feed gear is attached. Any chance it slipped out of place when you were putting it together? The obvious is to also pull the feed line and make sure that oil is coming out of the tank (probably the first and easiest thing to do)

[Alford]

Thanks for the tip on the spring. Oil is getting down to the pump via gravity, so I think I can rule out the tank and lines. But oil is definitely not pumping out of the pump. I guess today I will pull off the timing cover and oil pump and have a look.

[mbskeam]

bet a key is missing or sheared of....

[Alford]

Do I get to the shaft with the gear and key by pulling the oil pump or by taking off the timing cover?

[steve_wood]

I would start with the oil pump. That's a whole lot easier than messing with the cam cover....

[panz4ever]

Not sure how it works on your bike w the late model oil pump, but w/ pan pump you can disassemble the pump while in the frame. And the manual indicates that on pans and jenny shovels the pump may be disassembled piece by piece while in the frame as well. Remember that the shaft goes into the cam chest and at that end has the oil pump drive gear that engages the pinion gear. This is held in place by a spring ring. Means there is no way to pull the shaft out the pump side. there are two drive gears, one just under the cover and another behind the pump before it goes into the motor. Both have keys that go on the shaft and hold the gears in place. The service manual has a very good drawing of them and a good description of how to do it.

[Alford]

Well here is my latest update...

last night I removed the oil pump.

The 2 gears looked fine. The round clip was holding the gear on (the gear towards the engine)

I removed the round clip and saw that there was a key holding the gear on the shaft. I removed the key and the gear came off and I slid the oil pump out. There was one more key that was in place on the shaft, holding the inside gear on.

Everything looks fine. The only thing that looked a little odd to me was the gasket that goes between the oil pump and the engine case. It's made out of clear plastic, and it looks like one of the holes has been punched with a ball point pen or something. I'm pretty sure it's a shovelhead oil pump, so I'm assuming there has been some sort of adaptation to make it work.

So now my bike sits with the oil pump off. I don't know what to do next.

The shaft that is sticking out of the case is definitely engaged on the inside. I can't spin it, but I can pull it out and in a little bit, and turn it slightly.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[steinauge]

A picture of the oil pump surface where it contacts the case as well as a picture of the mating surface on the case would help.

[Bigincher]

I remember those plastic gaskets, had one on my Shovelhead. They were supposed to be the latest greatest thing, but they leak. I'd suggest going back to the paper gasket when you put it back together.