Oil temperature problem?
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Oil temperature problem?
After a total rebuild of my panhead, I've just taken it for its first spins. What worries me is that the oil becomes hotter than I expected. Slowly, it reaches appr. 230 degrees (ambient temp. around 70 degrees). Is that normal?
I have tried retarding the ignition further, but it didn't make any significant difference.
Please help me, any input/experience is highly appreciated. What oil temperture does your bike reach?
Facts: Newly-honed barrels, 74 cui, new 10:1 cast pistons, solid lifters, STD dual plug heads, electronic ignition retarded to appr. 25 degrees., Andrews AB cam, 99 octane fuel, Valvoline 20-50 oil, Zenith carburetor
I have tried retarding the ignition further, but it didn't make any significant difference.
Please help me, any input/experience is highly appreciated. What oil temperture does your bike reach?
Facts: Newly-honed barrels, 74 cui, new 10:1 cast pistons, solid lifters, STD dual plug heads, electronic ignition retarded to appr. 25 degrees., Andrews AB cam, 99 octane fuel, Valvoline 20-50 oil, Zenith carburetor
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Swede,
Running with the timing retarded will cause it to run HOTTER, not cooler. A lot of guys, me included, have better luck running a few degress beyond the normal factory full advance. I'm not sure what that will do with your 10:1 pistons but I would at least go back to the factory setting.
Running with too lean a mixture will also cause overheating.
Running with the timing retarded will cause it to run HOTTER, not cooler. A lot of guys, me included, have better luck running a few degress beyond the normal factory full advance. I'm not sure what that will do with your 10:1 pistons but I would at least go back to the factory setting.
Running with too lean a mixture will also cause overheating.
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What? Later timing (within reasonable settings) should give me cooler running, shouldn't it!?FlatHeadSix wrote:Swede,
Running with the timing retarded will cause it to run HOTTER, not cooler. A lot of guys, me included, have better luck running a few degress beyond the normal factory full advance. I'm not sure what that will do with your 10:1 pistons but I would at least go back to the factory setting.
Running with too lean a mixture will also cause overheating.
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Flatheadsix is correct. Late timing couses the engine to run hotter as too much of the combustion flame is sent out the exhaust and not burning off internally during the power stroke whithin the cylinder. That raises port temperater that passes heat on to the rest of the head heating up the oil. To see it happen, all you gotta do is take the bike out for a coupla blocks and back with the timing retarded. do it at night and you will see your pipes litterally turn chery red. It will blue your chrome job unless you have painted pipes, no problem. When you get er home, just gun it up a coupla times and all the carbon in the exhaust system will blow out in the form of sparkes like the fourth of July. Not reccomended with show chrome exhaust...partshunt
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Swede,
I can't speak for the rest of the guys, but I don't claim to know anything more than what I've learned from experience and from reading and following the guidance in the shop manuals that came with the machines when they were new.
One of the things I have learned is that trying to set ignition timing using piston position is not very reliable or reproducable. The timing mark on the flywheel is always your best choice, static timing will get you started, a strobe light will dial it in. When you set yours at 25 degrees below TDC did you back the engine up 10 degrees to see if the timing mark appeared in the window?
I know a lot of guys that have never used a strobe, they prefer to set the initial static timing at the factory mark and then tune it by ear. The ear method always involves ADVANCING the timing a few degrees at a time until you start to get pre-ignition (pinging), and then back off a little.
STD may have been trying to save your leg by suggesting a more retarded setting, it certainly would reduce the chances of kick back when trying to start an engine with high compression pistons.
I guess all I'm saying is give it a try, put the timing mark dead in the middle of the window, make sure the circuit breaker is at full advance when the points just start to open and lock it down. If it doesn't work you can always go back to where you were.
The overheating thing is only one of the nasty results of running with the spark retarded, it also robs performance. Your engine will have a lot more power and even sound better when you get the spark where it should be. If you're happy with blue and yellow burnt up pipes and a doggy engine, leave it where it is.
I can't speak for the rest of the guys, but I don't claim to know anything more than what I've learned from experience and from reading and following the guidance in the shop manuals that came with the machines when they were new.
One of the things I have learned is that trying to set ignition timing using piston position is not very reliable or reproducable. The timing mark on the flywheel is always your best choice, static timing will get you started, a strobe light will dial it in. When you set yours at 25 degrees below TDC did you back the engine up 10 degrees to see if the timing mark appeared in the window?
I know a lot of guys that have never used a strobe, they prefer to set the initial static timing at the factory mark and then tune it by ear. The ear method always involves ADVANCING the timing a few degrees at a time until you start to get pre-ignition (pinging), and then back off a little.
STD may have been trying to save your leg by suggesting a more retarded setting, it certainly would reduce the chances of kick back when trying to start an engine with high compression pistons.
I guess all I'm saying is give it a try, put the timing mark dead in the middle of the window, make sure the circuit breaker is at full advance when the points just start to open and lock it down. If it doesn't work you can always go back to where you were.
The overheating thing is only one of the nasty results of running with the spark retarded, it also robs performance. Your engine will have a lot more power and even sound better when you get the spark where it should be. If you're happy with blue and yellow burnt up pipes and a doggy engine, leave it where it is.
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FlatHeadSix, thanks for your thorough reply. You are correct, I marked the flywheel every 5 degrees and used a strobe, trying to retard it to appr. 25 degrees. The reason for this is that STD recommended later timing due to my dual plugs.
I will go back to original setting and take things from there. However, I need to run it to evaluate the changes and I am worried about overheating it, if I continue to run it when it reaches 230-240 F. Any thoughts on that?
I will go back to original setting and take things from there. However, I need to run it to evaluate the changes and I am worried about overheating it, if I continue to run it when it reaches 230-240 F. Any thoughts on that?
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Late ignition timing has a very large effect on the exhaust gas temps and the cylinder head temps. Back in the 60's, in order to start decreasing hydrocarbon emissions and speed up engine warm up, the auto manufacturers went from manifold vacuum sources on the vacuum advance to ported vacuum sources. At idle this had the effect of less ignition advance or retarding the timing. The engine ran hotter and the extra heat helped burn the hydrocarbon emissions. A few years later they started installing dual vacuum advance canisters on the distributors with thermostatic controls that retarded the timing using manifold vacuum until the engine was warm. Then after warm up, the vacuum source was switched to ported vacuum. Then they started leaning out the carbs with the lower vacuum advance and it got to the point that they had to add idle and anti-dieseling solenoids to keep the cars running. The leaner mixtures and retardted timing lead to dieseling or run on so the fix was to install solenoids to shut throttle plates and cut off fuel. If you have an old car, disconnect the vaccum advance and watch the coolant temperature climb.
The dual plug heads should allow the use of less ignition timing since there should be better flame propogation in the cylinder. But 10 degrees less sounds excessive.
Doug
The dual plug heads should allow the use of less ignition timing since there should be better flame propogation in the cylinder. But 10 degrees less sounds excessive.
Doug