SHE'S BACK TO LIFE, but...

[dragpipe]

hey guys,
finally kicked my pan over, and man is she loud. it has'nt ran since 82, so i was expecting a few problems. first of all it started fairly easy, 4-5 kicks, and ran stong with the choke on. it heated up really fast, (by touch-no temp gauges), and stalled out when closing the choke.

heres the problems
while it was running it was leaking oil out the filler cap,(aftermarket horseshoe oiltank for elect start). also leaking from the front by the generator.
after removing the filler cap, i noticed ther was more oil in the tank than i put in. i put 3 liters of oil in (straight 50) and there was about 4 liters in there overflowing the cap.
common sence tells me that oil transfered to the tank but not back in the bike!!??... now im scared to start it again.

what can i do to see if the oil is circulating properly?? please explain in detail any suggestions!! how can i check the pump, maybe the breather?,

or maybe im wrong all together??
where'd the oil come from (duh), why was it leaking out the front (preassure??) ?
as for it not idleing, ill make sure the oils transfering first.(probably jetting) so.....

the bike is a 53 fl motor and tranny. the rest a mix.

THANKS GUYS ... IM SO CLOSE I CAN FEEL THE WIND...PLEASE HELP!!

[Jack_Hester]

Sounds like oil leaked by the pump check valve, and down into the crankcase, during it's wait. You topped it off, and now that it has emptied the crankcase, the tank is too full. Drain the oil tank down to a comfortable level. You can run it low, safely. Your engine is a dry sump setup, so only a few ounces of oil are in the engine while it's running. I run my '59 oil tank low (only 2 quarts in the tank) when I'm running local. Helps warm the oil up faster, meaning it circulates better, sooner, and it passing through the filter sooner, rather than on the bypass/relief.

I don't believe that you have a major problem. Most H-D's will drain oil down into the cases, if they sit long. Drain yours, or change the oil, adding only 2 quarts. Watch for return to the tank, with the engine warming up.

Jack

[dragpipe]

thanks Jack
ill take some oil out of the tank and try to see if its returning.
any idea why it would leak at the front,(gasket?).
thanks Dan.

[dragpipe]

THANKS JACK
i guess if commom sense was so common everyone would have it.
drained some oil and she ran like a champ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
no leaks of major concern. now i just have to get it to idle properly!

the font exhaust is blueing the pipes already. seems the front cylinder is getting hot faster than the rear. is this normal????
thanks again, Dan

[Panacea]

Dragpipe, Just in case the carb is the cause of running too hot try using a larger pilot jet. Better to be rich than lean till you get the bugs out! Mike

[fourthgear]

dragpipe
What carb. are you using and was the manifold pressure leak checked ?

[dragpipe]

Thanks alot guys!!
The carb Im using is a cv carb off my sporty. Not sure what year it is though, (maybe you can help identify). I changed the jets to a #175 main and a #48 slow. Thats all I changed though. Do I need to change the needle too?. I got these sizes from past posts, but am now finding another piece of paper I had written on saying a # 50 pilot. stupid question: is the pilot also refered to as a slow jet?. If so I'll switch to a #50. If not, please explain. I also have written on a piece of paper a .115 needle jet-type n86e. I didnt switch the needle in the carb, partly because there were no identifying markings on it and I didnt want to buy the same one.
I havnt done a manifold leak test, I dont own a air compressor. Was really hopeing it would be good. The motor was rebuilt in the 80's, a long time ago, and has been sitting since with periodic turnovers with oil so everything was repositioned, valves,pistons crankshaft,ect.
Thought a leak test would have been done then...but who knows.

The front cylinder is running very hot compared to the rear. I have new plugs, bought two sets, new battery, new wires throughout ...
The bike doesnt want to idle at all with the choke off, just stalls imediatly.
Runs strong with the choke on then stalls as I push it in gradually.
Champion RJ14YC plugs. gapped correctly from manual.

THE BIKE STARTS FIRST KICK...COLD, WARM, HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopfully its nothing major and you guys can help me out, because I am so close its painfull.
I hope this is enough info for you guys to help me out. please explain everything that youre suggesting in detail so I know how to fix it myself.
I hate the thought of paying someone for a half assed job.

thanks again, Dan.

Also what can I do about this dist.?? see picture
could be the problem?

[fourthgear]

dragpipe
I'm running a 50 pilot and a 190 main jet . I think the sporty needle is ok , I think some say its the one to use . I had to shim my needle to get it to tune properly , the CV I have on is off a 02 night train. The manifold leak check should be done , if you are sucking in a lot of air , the motor will like a lot more fuel to run and that may be why you will not want to run with the enricher off ( what you call a choke ) What is the Q. on the circuit breaker ( distributor )I see no photo.

[dragpipe]

thanks fourthgear,
Ill try those jet settings. how much did you have to shim the needle?
I dont understand why one jug is heating faster than the other? a leak on that one side?
Im glad no ones mentioned rings or any other major fixes.
the picture i tried to post was to big of a file??
ill try again here.
is there any way to check for a leak without an aircompressor?

thanks man.
Dan

[fourthgear]

dragpipe

You might also recheck your timing . You can look here for more answers and questions about the CV40 .

As far as a compressor , you can use on of those 12volt ones that you get to pump up tires and foot balls , basket ball etc.. there are cheap or borrow one . You just need to put constant pressure to the manifold to check (you only need about 10 psi to do the check and it helps to get the motor to the point where no valves are open to just check the manifold.)If you look in the knowledge base the procedure may be there .

Whats the problem with the dist. ?

[dragpipe]

Fourthgear,
Im going to get those jets tomorrow morning,(sat.),so hopefully theyll make a differance. I was at a different shop today and the old mechanic says to use propane around the manifold when idling and listen for a change of idle. Now I know I have read alot of times on these posts not to do such a thing, with wd-40 ect... but I want to know what the risks are??
I dont want to drain the tanks, and take the carb off cause its a pain the ass, if thats not even the problem at all. I was hoping I could do a quick test with the bike in tack...but I will do it with soapy water if the risks are high.
I also want to double check the timing. From what I have read, cause thats all I know, is to rotate the motor until the front piston is on its compression stroke, as seen by the intake valve pushrod.
It then says, (this I dont understand), is to continue to turn the motor until the flywheel timing mark is aligned in the window just off to the right.
I think I just answered my own question, correct me if im wrong, but I first take the front piston to its compression stroke because thats the cyllinder Im timing???!
Then I check to see if the timing mark on the circuit breaker base alignes with the mark on the adjusting plate.(single contact manual advance). Now is that with the circuit breaker turned all the way to the right????Clockwise, retarded and should it come to a stop??? I dont know much about these things as I have only my own as referance and as you can see from the picture that there is nothing but a homemade stop connected to the frame to hold it , I assume in position. seems primitive.
It then says to turn the breaker head counterclockwise UNTIL IT CONTACTS A STOP, fully advanced position and see if the mark on the cam alignes with the breaker point heel. adjust by loosening the adjusting stud locknut and turn the breaker HEAD to set the aligning .
The timing mark on the base no longer lines up with the adjusting plate.
AM I MISSING SOMETHING??

When I am all set, what marks remain lined up?
It seems Im rotating the motor to time the front cyllinder, setting the timing marks, then resetting them for the advanced position.

Please explain in simple terms if Im missing something. and once the front cyllinder is timed the rear is timed also?

I know these are alot of questions, some stupid I am sure, but Id appreciate it if you could answer them for me as I am hoping to get this thing worked out this weekend.

THAKS, DAN

[fourthgear]

All forms of combustible material are dangerous and will give mixed results . The only way to make sure its not a leaking manifold is to pressure test it and than you can go on with other trouble shooting points . You have to eliminate that one factor before you proceed to any thing else because a leak it that area will miss lead you to think its some thing else ,not to mention you will not be able to effectively adj. / tune your carb..

Your circuit breaker / dist. has the stop built into it , if its complete and hasn't been choped . It should have two bolts or studs to fasten it to the case . The top breaker point base is what turns and it has a stud like post that protrudes from it for timing adj.. I will get some photos of the one I have off for reference .

The timing thing is , lower the front intake push rod tube , then rotate the motor until you see it ( front intake push rod/valve)just close and then looking at the timing hole , slowly rotate the motor until you see the timing mark , I use a piece of straw or a one piece plastic pen( with no guts ) to put into the spark plug hole to feel the piston coming up so you don't miss the and let the mark go by because once that piston gets close to the top it will come quick. One of the main people here brought up using a mirror so you can look at the hole from the kicker side when you get close, very good idea.

[Cotten]

Lets say you do get a reaction with propane.
How do you determine if it is the nipples into the heads, or the manifold itself? How many times are you gonna take it apart and put it back together again to blow more propane over it, hopeing you fixed the right spot each time?

The whole point of bubbles are that you can see exactly where and how much of a problem might exist immediately. With propane or any other barnyard approach, you trust to luck the stuff will get in there some how. You'll never find the small leaks that make plugs burn different, idle choppy, flat spots on accelleration, etc.

With bubbles, you can massage the assembly to a sweetspot while you are testing. Try that with propane!

I know a modern builder who likes to use a fire extingisher.
For some reason, he has never ever found a leaky manifold, but he has horrible things to say about certain pistons.

.....Cotten

[Panacea]

Maybe he got in the habit of using the fire extinguisher after using propane to test for leaks! Mike

[FlatHeadSix]

Dragpipe,

Part of your timig problem may be the timer base I see in your picture, it looks like an old flathead (WL) base on a panhead shaft. They fit right on and work fine, but it won't dial in using the panhead procedures in the pan book. The circuit breaker in your picture has a band around it with a vertical post for attaching the control cable. The original setup for those had a horseshoe shaped guide that bolted under the front intake lifter base and provided the stop for full advance and full retard positions. The only thing that will "stop" yours is the limits of travel on your cable when you twist it to one end or the other. The correct circuit breaker should have a window on the front side with a horizontal stud attached to a plate in the window. I'll post a picture if you need it.

You can still time it correctly. Twist it full advance, counterclockwise, as far as your cable will take it and then do all of the things already mentioned about putting the timing mark in the window with the front cylinder on the compression stroke. An old shadetree trick is to put a piece of cigarette paper between the points, twist your control to retard the spark (points closed), with the mark in the window, slightly tug on the paper and slowly twist the control to full advance. If everything is set right, the paper should pull free just as the control gets to full advance. If you need to fine tune yours, you can loosen the clamp on your band and rotate the timer base until you get it where it should be. If your bike actually has an old flathead circuit breaker as I suspect, the marks on the base won't mean much, ignore them. Just get it so that the points are just starting to open at full advance with the flywheel mark lined up in the window.

good luck!

mike