correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
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correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Need some help folks, i've been visiting this board for quite awhile now but it's my first time writing in.
I'm new to panheads and i'm starting pan project, in fact i'ts a 1953 panhead bottom end.
I need to know what cylinders and heads can be used with this crankcase. I just read on palmer's book about the three styles of cylinders, 48-52, 53-62 and 62-65, basically different oil passage configurations, right?
I contacted an e-bay seller and he said the v-twin repops can replace every 48-65 pan cylinders. Is that correct?
And what about the heads.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm new to panheads and i'm starting pan project, in fact i'ts a 1953 panhead bottom end.
I need to know what cylinders and heads can be used with this crankcase. I just read on palmer's book about the three styles of cylinders, 48-52, 53-62 and 62-65, basically different oil passage configurations, right?
I contacted an e-bay seller and he said the v-twin repops can replace every 48-65 pan cylinders. Is that correct?
And what about the heads.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Thanks!
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
You can use any cylinders and any heads, if you know what you're doing.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Jamilgallo!jamilgallo wrote:Need some help folks, i've been visiting this board for quite awhile now but it's my first time writing in.
I'm new to panheads and i'm starting pan project, in fact i'ts a 1953 panhead bottom end.
I need to know what cylinders and heads can be used with this crankcase. I just read on palmer's book about the three styles of cylinders, 48-52, 53-62 and 62-65, basically different oil passage configurations, right?
I contacted an e-bay seller and he said the v-twin repops can replace every 48-65 pan cylinders. Is that correct?
And what about the heads.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Thanks!
There are perhaps four styles of cylinders, if you include the earlier 61 cubic inch models.
Besides the oil gallery differences, '63 and later had different finnage, although that is not the major concern with Tedd Cycle reproductions, or for a '53.
Their catalog warns of the need for 12-point headbolts instead of conventional bolts for "extra clearance" (!).
Obviously "core float" during the casting process is something that they intentionally dismiss.
Some oriental reproductions of the last decade displayed such horrible core-float that a .030" overbore could reach the outside of the casting! OEM cylinders can often take a .100" overbore, when properly performed.
I would choose grossly over-bored OEM cylinders (even 61" castings) over fresh oriental castings without hesitation, if you can find them.
Good Luck!
....Cotten
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Thanks guys.
Cotten, I'm trying to find original cylinders but the ones i have found till now are either too worn (need sleeve) or too expensive LOL. I'm not in a hurry so i'll keep looking for a good usable set. Or maybe i'll get a set of overbored cylinders and get them sleeved back to standard. I did this before when i had a flathead and it worked OK, and i think flatties run hotter than any OHV, right?
kitabel, i don't know exactly what i'm doing LOL I was just trying to get some suggestions on what to do if, for example, i buy original 48-52 cylinders since these don't have the oil passage into the cylinder bore like the 53-54 cylinders(my year crankcase). I suspect there are probably many possibilities, with many possible fixes, but I'm basically wondering the easiest ways and the paths that must be avoided. As I said, i'm new to panheads, so suggestions are very welcomed.
Thanks again.
Cotten, I'm trying to find original cylinders but the ones i have found till now are either too worn (need sleeve) or too expensive LOL. I'm not in a hurry so i'll keep looking for a good usable set. Or maybe i'll get a set of overbored cylinders and get them sleeved back to standard. I did this before when i had a flathead and it worked OK, and i think flatties run hotter than any OHV, right?
kitabel, i don't know exactly what i'm doing LOL I was just trying to get some suggestions on what to do if, for example, i buy original 48-52 cylinders since these don't have the oil passage into the cylinder bore like the 53-54 cylinders(my year crankcase). I suspect there are probably many possibilities, with many possible fixes, but I'm basically wondering the easiest ways and the paths that must be avoided. As I said, i'm new to panheads, so suggestions are very welcomed.
Thanks again.
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Brazil,
There are a pair of 53 cylinders on Ebay now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-p ... ccessories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You need to check with the seller to verify they have the feed and drain otherwise they are 63 cylinders.
They need some work but are original.
Sometimes new antique owners think new parts are better then used parts but after awhile you may think used parts are better then new parts.
You can convert 48-52 cylinders to 53-62 cylinders (see photo), however there are enough 53-62 cylinders around this is not necessary.
Jerry
There are a pair of 53 cylinders on Ebay now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-p ... ccessories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You need to check with the seller to verify they have the feed and drain otherwise they are 63 cylinders.
They need some work but are original.
Sometimes new antique owners think new parts are better then used parts but after awhile you may think used parts are better then new parts.
You can convert 48-52 cylinders to 53-62 cylinders (see photo), however there are enough 53-62 cylinders around this is not necessary.
Jerry
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Jamilgallo!
OEM cylinders can be bored much farther than many believe;
By stressing the casting with torque-plates while fitting for the piston, as much as .100" overbore is possible, and it will still be stronger than a sleeved cylinder. ....Cotten
OEM cylinders can be bored much farther than many believe;
By stressing the casting with torque-plates while fitting for the piston, as much as .100" overbore is possible, and it will still be stronger than a sleeved cylinder. ....Cotten
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Jerry, Cotten,
Thanks guys for all your replies, links and pictures. As for the cylinders, initially I'll try to find them locally so i don't have to spend $$$$$$ for shipping overseas almost 29lbs of cast iron; they do show up time to time, even down here in the south hemisphere. For what i understood i'd better stick to 53-62 barrels, no need to drill anything, that's the kind of information i was hoping for. Cotten, I totally agree but torque plating is not a very common practice for most shops here, but i'll try to persuade my machinist, but i can foresee what he's going to say - Don't worry about distortion! I will fit the pistons on the loosest side of the tolerances! I'm doing this for 30 years! LOL he always says the same! LOL
Thanks guys for all your replies, links and pictures. As for the cylinders, initially I'll try to find them locally so i don't have to spend $$$$$$ for shipping overseas almost 29lbs of cast iron; they do show up time to time, even down here in the south hemisphere. For what i understood i'd better stick to 53-62 barrels, no need to drill anything, that's the kind of information i was hoping for. Cotten, I totally agree but torque plating is not a very common practice for most shops here, but i'll try to persuade my machinist, but i can foresee what he's going to say - Don't worry about distortion! I will fit the pistons on the loosest side of the tolerances! I'm doing this for 30 years! LOL he always says the same! LOL
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Jamilgallo!
I sincerely suggest that you search in earnest for a competent machinist:
Torque-plates are available in the catalogs, although even an amateur machinist can easily make them.
A .070" overbored cylinder spigot can distort as much as .003" inward between the base fasteners, and .003" outward at the fasteners, for a .006" differential. A .0045" clearance to survive the pinch is a pure waste of your money and hardware.
Less disastrous, but just as tragic, is the headbolt distortion, which pulls outward in five spots, defeating ring seal and robbing power and motor life.
Even a sleeved cylinder should be stressed for fitting, as the spring-within-a-spring effect sets waves of distortion within the bore.
It is only the self-righteousness of the ignorant that has discarded tens of thousands of valuable cylinders with millions of miles left in them. The two cylinders do not even have to be the same size!
Good Luck, Good Fellow, Good Luck!
....Cotten
I sincerely suggest that you search in earnest for a competent machinist:
Torque-plates are available in the catalogs, although even an amateur machinist can easily make them.
A .070" overbored cylinder spigot can distort as much as .003" inward between the base fasteners, and .003" outward at the fasteners, for a .006" differential. A .0045" clearance to survive the pinch is a pure waste of your money and hardware.
Less disastrous, but just as tragic, is the headbolt distortion, which pulls outward in five spots, defeating ring seal and robbing power and motor life.
Even a sleeved cylinder should be stressed for fitting, as the spring-within-a-spring effect sets waves of distortion within the bore.
It is only the self-righteousness of the ignorant that has discarded tens of thousands of valuable cylinders with millions of miles left in them. The two cylinders do not even have to be the same size!
Good Luck, Good Fellow, Good Luck!
....Cotten
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Thanks Cotten, unfortunately that old saying "if you need it done right, do it yourself" can't be applied to this case because I don't have a machine shop, I'm just a guy in his garage LOL But you just gave me a good idea, i will give him the stress plates as a birthday gift, but only if he promises to use them in my cylinders He's a nice guy, just stubborn as hell.
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
Just curious, does anyone make .100 oversize pistons for Pans?
Has anyone ever attempted to plate an oversize cylinder back to standard, as is commonly done with light aircraft engines?
There are a number of companies that offer a variety of coatings.
Regards,
John
Has anyone ever attempted to plate an oversize cylinder back to standard, as is commonly done with light aircraft engines?
There are a number of companies that offer a variety of coatings.
Regards,
John
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Re: correct cylinders and heads for a 53 bottom end
John!
.100" OS pistons are produced and distributed by the same importer that supplies virtually all cast pistons for all the major catalogs (Dixie/Superior). Naturally, they get re-packaged. And because of backward prejudices of most installers, most retailers do not offer them.
They are S. Korean productions, if I was told the told the truth on other forums, but very fine no matter where they originate. (Most folks prefer other rings than they supply, however.)
Nicosil "plating" was a hot subject for a while, until Jaguars started failing from (you guessed it) P4gas.
They blamed it upon high sulfur content in some USA fuels.
Any means of saving a cylinder beyond sleeving is worth investigating, of course.
Sleeving is an absolute last-ditch effort for a pre-evo American motorcycle cylinder, and must follow scrupulous techniques when applied to provide a result worth the risk.
....Cotten
.100" OS pistons are produced and distributed by the same importer that supplies virtually all cast pistons for all the major catalogs (Dixie/Superior). Naturally, they get re-packaged. And because of backward prejudices of most installers, most retailers do not offer them.
They are S. Korean productions, if I was told the told the truth on other forums, but very fine no matter where they originate. (Most folks prefer other rings than they supply, however.)
Nicosil "plating" was a hot subject for a while, until Jaguars started failing from (you guessed it) P4gas.
They blamed it upon high sulfur content in some USA fuels.
Any means of saving a cylinder beyond sleeving is worth investigating, of course.
Sleeving is an absolute last-ditch effort for a pre-evo American motorcycle cylinder, and must follow scrupulous techniques when applied to provide a result worth the risk.
....Cotten