Cylinder Honing

[Wreckman]

Installing new rings and need to hone my cylinders. I am not sure what grit hone to order. There are no scratches just need to nock the glaze off to seat the new rings.

[Cotten]

Wreckman!

Modern rings do NOT seat.

If you can see any cross-hatch at all, don't touch them.
If you really really must do something, put a cross-hatch on them by hand with Scotchbrite.

Or, if you are lucky enough to have honing equipment handy, lick them a few times with a plateau brush.

Good luck,

....Cotten

[Panshovevo]

Wreckman!

Modern rings do NOT seat.



....Cotten

Cotten,
I missed this thread while traveling. Could you enlighten me on this statement?
Regards,
John

[Cotten]

John!

I am only quoting a Hastings representative over the phone many years ago: If the surface coating is worn from the edge of the ring, they consider it worn out.

The point being that modern rings start out quite round, and the cylinder wall should be quite smooth: a "plateau" finish with a cross-hatch of various depths of sharply-cut valleys with all peaks smoothed off.

A web search for modern honeing techiques at supplier sites like Hastings, Goodson, etc., will explain in much greater detail: I believe one said a cotton ball should wiped upon the wall to see if it would draw fibers!

....Cotten

[Panshovevo]

Cotten, I haven't had time to fully research modern honing techniques, but I think that the statement you were given must refer to the fact that modern rings are made of or at least faced with much harder materials than the old cast iron rings.
Either way, the rings still have to seat, whether the rings wear to conform to the cylinder or the cylinder wears to conform to the rings, or a combination of the two.

Regards,
John

[Sir_Rat]

Wreckman, This should help.
The is from the Hastings web site @ http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ContentData. ... ntentid=82" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They also had a lengthy section on cylinder reboring and lots of other motor rebuilding info. The reference at the bottom to a "450 degree angle" I belieive is a typo....it should be 45 degree angle.

Aloha...Mike

Cylinder deglazing
The importance of cylinder wall deglazing cannot be overemphasized. The proper cylinder finish will provide the quickest possible break-in and greatly reduce the possibilities of ring or piston scuffing during break-in.

The glazed cylinder wall causes rings to "skate" on the highly polished finish and discourages the minute amount of wear which is necessary to mate piston rings with the bore.

The interrupted "deglazed" finish contains minute hills and valleys which carry a film of oil which will retard which will retard scuffing during break of as well as produce the type of cylinder finish piston rings can mate to very rapidly.

The finish produced by a 220-280 grit stone is most desirable. The cross hatch pattern should intersect at approximately a 450 angle. Too flat an angle leads to ring spinning which prevents seating the rings.

Probably the most critical part of the deglazing operation is the proper cleaning after deglazing. The residue of honing, if left in the engine, will rapidly destroy all moving parts. It is recommended that engines be cleaned thoroughly with soap and water. Clean with soap and water until the bore can be wiped with a clean white cloth without soiling the cloth. After clean up, oil the area to prevent rust formation. Waterless hand soap also serves as an excellent cleaning agent.

[Panshovevo]

All good information, Sir Rat.
Another thing worth mentioning is ultra-sonic cleaning of the cylinders, if one has access to the equipment. I haven't tried it, but have been told by some one who has that after thorough ultra-sonic cleaning, the rings seat way faster and better.
This individual put new liners in a Detroit Diesel 6V-92. He cleaned them with hot soapy water first, then put them in the ultra-sonic machine until the visible residue stopped accumulating in the bottom of the tank.
After the installation, the rings seated almost immediately.

[Cotten]

I guess it's like Ol' Shifty once told me,
"You can lead a horse to water, but you better drink before it pees in it."

....Cotten

[George Greer]

Good info at the hastings link..

Thanks for posting that one.

George

[Sir_Rat]

George, I like their info on break in: Warm it up, ride it, when you hit 30MPH nail it till you hit 50MPH, then back off and repeat a minimum of 10 times. After that avoid sustained high speeds until the first 100 miles. Thats a big difference from the old days when you had to do 500 for iron and 750 miles for chromemoly rings. It used to take me a month to break in a motor here...now I can do it in a night (I always break my motors in a night when its cooler)

Aloha...Mike

[Panshovevo]

I guess it's like Ol' Shifty once told me,
"You can lead a horse to water, but you better drink before it pees in it."

....Cotten

I've always been fond of "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think".

[Panacea]

I'm wondering if anyone checks the bore with a new ring to see if it's making contact all round, top to bottom. Can a perfect circle be achieved with a hone?...Mike

[Cotten]

Mike!

The bore can be honed every bit as round as the rings, if torqueplates are installed.

....Cotten

[Panshovevo]

Torque plates help, but nothing can simulate actual operating conditions. Break-in remains necessary.

[john HD]

if you guys follow matt olsen's blog he just had a shot of a pretty cool ring gapping machine posted.

check his dec 29th post http://oldbikesinsd.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

john