Panhead cylinder resleeve recommendation?

[61flh]

Hello,

I have some cylinders from a 1961 Panhead that need to be resleeved. On the rear one, the piston pin retainer came out and scored the jug. The front one is OK, but is about .060 over. I would like to get them both resleeved back to standard. Bill's Custom Cycles in PA can do it, but he is backed up until around October/November and I cannot wait that long to get the bike running again.

My local wrench does not want to touch them and I *really* do not want to go with an aftermarket set of jugs if I can avoid it.

Anyway, anybody out there have any recommendation for some shops that know what they are doing and can do a good resleeve job?

Thanks,

61FLH

[james]

I don't know how backed up he is but Carl Olsen can do it.

Jim

[Cotten]

61FLH!

With proper technique and equipment,
OEM 74" Pan cylinders can be taken to as much as .100" oversize safely.
(And yes, they make pistons that big!)

Your .060" cylinder is in the prime of its life,
and some trial cuts on the scored cylinder may proved it can clean within similar limits. (And the motor could care less if its bores do not match!)

Sleeving normally cuts deeper than .100" oversize, and compromises the matrix casting more. I have witnessed sleeving jobs that cut through to daylight, and the results were appropriate for Independence Day.

Ordinary auto machine shop can perform sleeving with specifically-detailed requests, and appropriate equipment. The press-fit need not be more than a thou and a half at most, but the bore for the sleeve must be honed to the finest finish possible.
(This is not only for ease of insulation, but for heat transfer in duty, as sleeves inherently present a heat barrier.)
A dedicated shop will even turn and polish the sleeves down to minimize the intrusion and weakening of the casting.
(Beware that auto shops used to water-cooled motors will not see the need, at first.)

I hate to see life in good hardware wasted.

...Cotten

[FlatHeadSix]

61flh,
Yes Carl can do it, but don't get in a hurry if you send your stuff to him either, he is probably more backed up than Bill.

You could give L.A. Sleeve a call and see what their turn-around time is, they have a good product and good service. (in fact, most of the sleeves that the other shops use come from them anyway)
here's the link:
http://www.lasleeve.com/services

not an endorsement, just a recommendation for another place to try

mike

[rmcrh]

I agree with Cotten especially about the Heat transfer issue. In turn there is nothing wrong with the replacement ones as have been attested to several times.

[George Greer]

With proper technique and equipment,
OEM 74" Pan cylinders can be taken to as much as .100" oversize safely.
(And yes, they make pistons that big!)...Cotten

Cotten,

So I take it that using torque plates on my .070" 74" OEM pan cylinders, I should not worry myself crazy as I have been doing looking for a set of cylinders?

The bores look OK, and not scored up, and after looking at them perhaps just a fresh hone and new rings would be OK.

Thanks, I did not know about running the cylinders at the OS that you mention.

George

[Larry]

If the cylinders are in spec, and have already been successfully used at .070", where's the problem?

[George Greer]

If the cylinders are in spec, and have already been successfully used at .070", where's the problem?

I don't know.......I just don't want to run into any!

George

[Cotten]

George!

Every cylinder must be carefully inspected, of course, as previous pokes from boremeisters might not have been as masterfull as hoped, an the bore may no longer be n the center of the casting core.

Our first requirement for an educated assessment is to find a way to measure the remaining casting thickness.
I removed the top spring from a common caliper so that the thumbscrew could be reversed, thereby making it openable to
clear the baseflange, after setting to a feel for the thinnest spot.
Re-closed, the gap can be measured with a feelergauges, or a dial caliper if
large enough.

CALIPER.jpg

The thinnest spots in the cylinder wall are in the milled cuttaways for basenut clearance. I probe the radius of the cut to determine the minimal point, and set the caliper:

CYLWALL.jpg

With 74" cylinders at .100"-Over, and 61" cylinders at .155" over, I found .070" remaining, and have adopeted this figure as the minimum safe thickness.

This does allow a margin of safety, as I have an oriental cylinder that ran at what appears to be about .005" wall.
I put my fingernail through it:

PERFDCYL.jpg

Inspection of the bore itself must performed while stressed, as the spigot can flex inward .003", as well as outward .003", for a six thou out-of round problem.

torqplat.jpg

So if your .070"-over cylinders were not fitted using plates last time, you might get away with honeing the spigots for clearance, but most likely have to go .080" for a decent bore at a reasonable clearance.

And I admit that I always gave large overbores an extra half-thou of clearance,
as it can be quite difficult to install a piston with the plates removed!

....Cotten

[George Greer]

George!

Every cylinder must be carefully inspected, of course, as previous pokes from boremeisters might not have been as masterfull as hoped, an the bore may no longer be n the center of the casting core.

Our first requirement for an educated assessment is to find a way to measure the remaining casting thickness.
I removed the top spring from a common caliper so that the thumbscrew could be reversed, thereby making it openable to
clear the baseflange, after setting to a feel for the thinnest spot.
Re-closed, the gap can be measured with a feelergauges, or a dial caliper if
large enough.

CALIPER.jpg

The thinnest spots in the cylinder wall are in the milled cuttaways for basenut clearance. I probe the radius of the cut to determine the minimal point, and set the caliper:

CYLWALL.jpg

With 74" cylinders at .100"-Over, and 61" cylinders at .155" over, I found .070" remaining, and have adopeted this figure as the minimum safe thickness.

This does allow a margin of safety, as I have an oriental cylinder that ran at what appears to be about .005" wall.
I put my fingernail through it:

PERFDCYL.jpg

Inspection of the bore itself must performed while stressed, as the spigot can flex inward .003", as well as outward .003", for a six thou out-of round problem.

torqplat.jpg

So if your .070"-over cylinders were not fitted using plates last time, you might get away with honeing the spigots for clearance, but most likely have to go .080" for a decent bore at a reasonable clearance.

And I admit that I always gave large overbores an extra half-thou of clearance,
as it can be quite difficult to install a piston with the plates removed!

....Cotten

Again, Thanks for the information.

I only want to do the engine right the first time around!

George

[Panacea]

George, did the fellow with the 1961 cylinders ever call you?...Mike

[George Greer]

George, did the fellow with the 1961 cylinders ever call you?...Mike

Mike, he did not..

And to add to that frustration........I mistakenly deleted a bunch of messages to include his contact info.

I surely don't want to piss someone off that I have not met by waking them up thanks to the time difference.

PM or email, please.

George