S&S E carb question

[talldrifter]

Hello all,
I've been reading the KB and Pan section from back to front to see what I missed (up to page 62 now). Noticed something last night about no return throttle spring on early linkerts, I would like to do that with my S&S E, thought I would ask if anyone had done it and if it works. I used to have my fast bikes set up like that from 1975 til 2003 (900 and 1000 Kawa's). I bought my pan in '98, was told it won't work because of the throttle plate, the mikuni's have a slide. Nothing antique on mine anymore, left side '48 case cracked and '50 heads messed up by repair shop, now its 88 inch AM parts in an 81 FXE frame.
A lot of good reading so far but I have a long way to go.
Thanks,
Warren

[cosmiccowboy]

I have a super E on my pan with a single cable and never had an issue. The return spring is so strong it always closes the butterfly. I don't want anymore cables hanging from my handlebars so I stay that way. CC

[talldrifter]

Thanks for the quick reply CC,
Actually I guess I didn't clearly describe what I want to do. I have dual cables now and the spring, I had dual cables and the spring on the Kawa's too, but by disconnecting the spring and adjusting the cables snug I didn't have to pull against the spring on the carb, much easier on the wrist. Thought I would do the same thing on this bike, since the bike is down for repairs now and the carb will be off it would be a good time to make the change. I was told that the throttle plate would not stay steady without the spring and therefore would not keep a steady RPM. Although, apparently the early pans with linkerts (without springs) worked from the factory. Wondering if anybody had already tried this and what results did they have?
Thanks

[Kuda]

I ran the factory non-return spring throttle on an S&S, CV, and now the original Linkert, no problem at all. Factory spirals silver-soldered into some 14" apes, used the thinner aftermarket cables and wires (easier to fit inside the bars, but still a bit of a challenge), but it works just fine...

Oh, and I should mention that on the S&S, the acel pump was turned off, and the CV was modified to only barely squirt. Found that mileage suffered badly with the pump working, and performance didn't suffer with it off.

-Kuda
'49 panchop (with cruise control of sorts)

[talldrifter]

Thanks Kuda, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only person with these ideas! I like the "cruise control" effect also and my arthritus doesn't like the spring resistance. Sounds like you don't mind a challenge, dual cables inside the apes, pretty good.
I'm on a mission to learn all that I can about the bike and ways to make it better, it has been through four shops, two (including the last one) were better at emptying my bank account than fixing the problems. Now if it doesn't get fixed in my garage it will stay in the corner. Thanks for the tip on the acel pump, I don't know at the moment how mine is set but I downloaded all I could find on the S&S site and will go through it.

[Robert Luland]

Let me understand this now? You want to use a standard internal throttle control on something other than a Linkert to get away from having the fatigue on your hand from the spring but the throttle turns the wrong way to pull it off? Answer: Just get aftermarket Hummer handle bar sleeves. Hummers pulled instead of pushing. Thank you very much, Perry Reuter. Bob L

[talldrifter]

Thanks Bob,
I'm just wanting to go back to my old habits with a different bike, just disconnecting the throttle return spring and useing the two cables to control the carb. I'm not always sensible, I use a sucide clutch with ratchet/jockey shift on this bike, for 20+ years I saved money not buying batteries by using a large blue capacitor on the Kawa's and just using the kick starter. That Hummer trick might be something for the future though.

[windweaver]

the ones on the older bikes used a solid wire like lawnmower throttle so they would stay where you left them/ your push pull cables will not work the same. WW

[Kuda]

Thanks Bob,
I'm just wanting to go back to my old habits with a different bike, just disconnecting the throttle return spring and useing the two cables to control the carb. I'm not always sensible, I use a sucide clutch with ratchet/jockey shift on this bike, for 20+ years I saved money not buying batteries by using a large blue capacitor on the Kawa's and just using the kick starter. That Hummer trick might be something for the future though.

I shouldv'e been clearer, my appologies. Let me clarify: The stock internal throttle is a "dead man's" throttle. It uses a spiral sleeve inserted into the end of the handlebar which *pushes* a single solid wire ("cable") in a sleeve through the bars, activating the throttle. With a stock solid wire, you don't need two cables. However, the stock sleeves PUSH the wire when rotated back, and the stock Linkert is a push to open too. To make it work with the CV & S&S (and pretty much every other carb out there), you'll need to convert that PUSH into a PULL. You can do that in two basic ways: 1) use a Hummer throttle sleeve to make a push into a pull, or; 2) use a "snap throttle adapter" to move the linkage to the other side of the carb, effectively making the push into the pull (you don't have to use the spring, just the adapter part. Hope that helps clarify things...

-Kuda

[talldrifter]

Thanks for the info WW,

Thanks again Kuda, no appologies needed, I understand what you mean, mostly. I used the regular push and pull cables on the previous bikes, just adjusted them snug so there was no play in the cables and the carbs worked very well, just set the throttle and it stayed until I moved it again. Of course if I fall off and don't close the throttle first the bike would just keep on going, I try not to do that. Something I am not clear on is you said that yours is a "dead man's" throttle, that would mean to me that it has a spring of some sort to return the engine back to idle if released, maybe I need to do more research on the spiral throttle. For now both of my cables are almost new so I will wear them out before changing the throttle. When I put it back together I will disconnect the spring on the carb (if I can figure out how) and try it, if it doesn't work the way I want I'll just hook it back up. I enjoyed your long distance web page, found the link back around page 53 +/-, I used to do some distance riding 30 some years ago, too old now.
Warren

[Kuda]

Something I am not clear on is you said that yours is a "dead man's" throttle, that would mean to me that it has a spring of some sort to return the engine back to idle if released, maybe I need to do more research on the spiral throttle. I enjoyed your long distance web page, found the link back around page 53 +/-, I used to do some distance riding 30 some years ago, too old now.
Warren

I've really gotta stop posting before I've had coffee. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. OK, so I used the wrong term: not a dead man's throttle, which requires human input to keep open, but a "dead" throttle, which means no spring. It stays where you leave it, for the most part (vibration may eventually close it slightly if you're riding long enough with the throttle open). Hope that clears it up for you, and thanks for the props on the web page. Gonna have to dig it up, can't even remember it now...

-Kuda
'49 panchop

[Panacea]

Something I am not clear on is you said that yours is a "dead man's" throttle, that would mean to me that it has a spring of some sort to return the engine back to idle if released, maybe I need to do more research on the spiral throttle. I enjoyed your long distance web page, found the link back around page 53 +/-, I used to do some distance riding 30 some years ago, too old now.
Warren

I've really gotta stop posting before I've had coffee. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. OK, so I used the wrong term: not a dead man's throttle, which requires human input to keep open, but a "dead" throttle, which means no spring. It stays where you leave it, for the most part (vibration may eventually close it slightly if you're riding long enough with the throttle open). Hope that clears it up for you, and thanks for the props on the web page. Gonna have to dig it up, can't even remember it now...

-Kuda
'49 panchop

Mine works the same as Kuda's, I've got a Kehin CV with a reverse spiral. I used a late cable with an adjuster near the carb to take up the slack. Works great, like cruise control...Mike

[BCOWANWHEELS]

ONE TIHING I DONT LIKE ABOUT THE S&S MANIFOLD FOR MY PAN IS THERE IS NO PROVISION FOR A MANIFOLD SUPPORT. SURE WOULD HAVE MADE IT ALOT SIMPLER TO JUST ADD A FLANGE SO YOU COULD STABLIZE THE MANIFOLD TO THE TOP ENGINE MOUNT. VERY POOR IN DESIGN IMO. GUESS IT GOES WITH THE THINKING OF STRAIGHT DOWN FUEL INLET HUH.......

[talldrifter]

Hey Kuda,
It takes 4 cups in the morning before I can do anything right, you are forgiven and understood!

Panacea,
Thanks for the tip on the adjustable cable, when my cables need to be replaced I will look into that.

Bcowanwheels,
Back when I still had the 1950 heads on the bike with the S&S intake I just used a flat strip of metal from the bottom carb flange bolt to the top center bolt between the cylinders directly below it to support the carb and manifold, worked fine. How is your build coming along?

[Panacea]

ONE TIHING I DONT LIKE ABOUT THE S&S MANIFOLD FOR MY PAN IS THERE IS NO PROVISION FOR A MANIFOLD SUPPORT. SURE WOULD HAVE MADE IT ALOT SIMPLER TO JUST ADD A FLANGE SO YOU COULD STABLIZE THE MANIFOLD TO THE TOP ENGINE MOUNT. VERY POOR IN DESIGN IMO. GUESS IT GOES WITH THE THINKING OF STRAIGHT DOWN FUEL INLET HUH.......

Here you go, this one works well...Mike http://www.chrome-addiction.com/p-ss-cy ... ?r=froogle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;