Marathon recreational grade fuel - ethonal free

[Ripley/Fla]

I kicked the S&S habit and installed a linkert. My motor is stock. I had forgotten how great these carbs are when everything is right. Always 1st or 2nd kick start after priming. And I had forgotten the thrill of the locomotive dead mans throttle! Well the more I rode the harder it was to start, the idle mixture setting got totally effed up, I'd stink like gas after riding it. I'm replacing the O-rings and have found out that Marathon sells an ethanol free 90 octane gas marketed as recreational grade. I learned about it at a lawn equipment dealer as they are having issues with the ethonol eating up those cheesy Chinese carb parts. As i said my motor is stock - I'll report back on how it runs.

[Cotten]

Ripley!

When you replace your O-rings, do your best to get some JAMES viton rings to resist digestive fuels in the future.

And you should probably inspect your float for swelling as well.

Ethanol is bad, but it isn't the worst part of modern fuels: it is the injector cleaners, detergents, Intake Valve Deposit inhibitor (IVD), and scads of other un-named additives, in combination.

Actually, most fuels are not as bad as they were a few years ago, although the Pacific Northwest had particularly digestive P4gas last season.

You never know what will come out of the next pump.

.....Cotten

[lownslow]

Cotten, I live in the Pacific Northwest...............what is this P4 gas you speak of?

I only buy clear premium and fill up tanks in my garage but occasionally have to buy elsewhere on longer rides. I try to use Shell or Chevron when far away but know that is no guarantee. There is definitely some hokey stations out there.

[Cotten]

Lownslow!

P4gas is just what it sounds like. (Say it slow a few times...)

The offending brand last summer in Washington State was Shell "Nitrogenated", which swoll both of my competitor's cast black composite floats, which use an obsolete, off-patent form of the material that I machine.
The confusing aspect is that my Central Illinois Shell did not swell their floats, in my tests.

This is the third season for Shell's "Nitrogenated' formula, yet it is the first season that JBWeld has failed in Shell, ever.
We must conclude that even a major brand will not be consistant across the nation. So, from season to season, from brand to brand, from locale to locale,... you never know what will come out of the next pump.

....Cotten

[lownslow]

P4GAS.........guess I'm a little slow...........& low........har.

Sure hope the station close by that sells clear premium stays afloat.

[PanJud]

I travel all day for work, and notice, now and again, a station which states "NO ETHANOL" Invariably forget where they are, of course. I think I'm gonna keep a empty 5 gallon can in back for the next time I see one---bike and 2 cycle yard equipment, both far better off sans ethanol

(This got me thinking, there are very cool sites that show where such stations are:
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=VA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pure Gas Stations in Virginia
City Brand Octane Name Street Address GPS*

Riner UNBRANDED 87 Riner Food Center 4031 Riner Road N37.13015 W80.56595
Roanoke EXPRESS STOP FUELS 87 89 93 Express Stop 3509 Plantation Rd N37.30756 W79.93198
Roanoke UNBRANDED 87 93 Garden City Grocery 3735 Garden City Boulevard N37.22750 W79.93041
Roanoke UNBRANDED 87 89 93 Plantation Market (Prime Gas) 7372 Plantation Road N37.34664 W79.94978
Roanoke PURE 87 89 91 Pure 2131 Franklin Road Sw N37.25259 W79.95220
Roanoke UNBRANDED 87 90 93 Snappy Food Mart 617, Liberty Rd N37.29835 W79.93035
Rocky Mount UNBRANDED 87 Gibsons One Stop 18100 Virgil H Goode Hwy N37.02847 W79.87948
Rocky Mount APOLLO 87 89 90 Gibsons One Stop 18100 Virgil Goode Hwy N37.04484 W79.87685
Rocky Mount UNBRANDED 87 Quik Stop 4994 Franklin St N36.95212 W79.94100
Rural Retreat MARATHON 90 Parkway Main St not available
Salem PETRO POWER 87 89 93 Quick Way Food Mart 1015 Apperson Dr. N37.27188 W80.04004

Vinton UNBRANDED 87 89 93 Race Zone 1339 Hardy Road N37.27195 W79.87383
Vinton UNBRANDED 89 93 Super Dollar Discount Foods 1090 Bypass Rd. N37.27550 W79.88305
Vinton GAS N GO 87 90 93 Super Dollar Gas N Go 1090 Bypass Rd not available

*GPS coordinates may be located from the supplied address, and may not be accurate. View the station details.
© 2011 Sam Hokin

[Cotten]

Folks,

Just in case no one caught my last message, I repeat myself:

Yes, adding ethanol to gasoline is stupid, for many reasons, nearly all of which are political.

But it is not what digests your soft hardware.
Ethanol, by itself, does little or nothing to rubber compounds, as produced for or by H-D since the mid-''50s.

It is all those other additives I mentioned.

"Ethanol-Free" fuel with modern additives is no guarantee of soft-part's survival!


...Cotte

[PanJud]

BUT, non ethanol won't separate, turn to goo, or whatever ethanol does, which makes TONS of money for small-engine repair folks

[Cotten]

Panjud!

Ethanol will not separate from gasoline unless a great deal of water is introduced.
It safely absorbs small amounts, and that is why another alcohol, methanol, is used for a gasline anti-freeze.

And small engine shops complain about destroyed fuel lines and diaphragms, which are "rubber" parts affected by the other additives associated with ethanol: the same problem that destroys most floats and rubber needles, hoses, etc., on our machines.

I receive many carburetors with deposits from fuels, but only those that have sat idle for extended periods have "goo".

Accumulated goo from evaporation and a leaky petcock: obviously an additive.
Traditional varnish was clear, and brown.

GREENGOO.jpg (45.14 KiB) Viewed 1518 times

Instead, I find a light-colored powder, sometimes in great quantities.

Sample in bottle came from a single carburetor.

CRUD5.jpg (46 KiB) Viewed 1518 times

And it is corrosive beyond what ethanol alone will produce.

Note corrosion upon modern floatvalve needle.

PHILCRUD.jpg (52.18 KiB) Viewed 1518 times

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to defend ethanol, far from it!
But we must get our facts straight if we are to understand and fight the problem.

....Cotten

[jellero]

i won't run ethanol in anything. they might as well add water with what it does to my mpg in my truck. it absolutely will not work in my chain saw and i cut wood for heat every year. alcohol boils at a much lower temp than gas and i cut at about 10,000'- 12,000' which lowers the boiling temp even more- vapor lock. gas in the tank is actually boiling, saw is impossible to start with vapor in the line. yes, adding ethanol to gas is very stupid. j

[drinner-okc]

In 2009 I installed new OEM header pipes on my 65. I'd had them stashed for years and the ones I had on looked bad with the new paint & seat. First trip out I stopped at a station that had never had ethanol before but had switched and did not have decals on the pumps. The bike ran horrible on the trip & blued the pipes worse in 100 miles than the ones I took off. I only got 28 miles per gal. (on my last trip I averaged 38. Even the Twin-Cam I was riding with complained of poor performance.
I try to buy my gas from a small private station, besides ethanol, they usually dont pay to add all the cleaners & oxygenators the majors have in their gas.
Plus I add Marvel Mystery Oil & Stabil to my tanks.
Brand name gas makes the Holley on my Camaro leak too.
drinner-okc

[PanJud]

BUT, non ethanol won't separate, turn to goo, or whatever ethanol does, which makes TONS of money for small-engine repair folks

Meh...my only knowledge on the matter comes from what the 2 guys who fix my chainsaws, weed-eater, generator, lawn-mower, and tiller say......

[bilibobb]

I ran high grade fuel here in uk in my bobber, sat it over winter, tank was lined, 5% ethanol ate away at the lining, it got dragged in the engine, ethanol dissolves epoxy based products over time .... not good ... it's everywhere here ...
my tank contents ......

[Cotten]

I ran high grade fuel here in uk in my bobber, sat it over winter, tank was lined, 5% ethanol ate away at the lining, it got dragged in the engine, ethanol dissolves epoxy based products over time .... not good ... it's everywhere here ...
my tank contents ......

Bilibob!

Beg to differ, in that it is not just the ethanol, if at all.

As I mentioned, every season, I test various paints, sealers, adhesives, and goobers on etched glass plates in my local P4gas.

GLASTEST.jpg (30.81 KiB) Viewed 1423 times

Ethanol is always present, and when I had it, I even tested with "Punctilious" 95% reagent ethanol.

Straight ethanol does little of anything to anything.
Would it be a popular beverage additive otherwise?

But combined with a myriad of other un-named additives, the mix can even eat quality powdercoating.

Blaming just ethanol, (although its stupid in petrol motor fuels), is like blaming sniffles for a cold.

As long as society requires fuel injector cleaners, etc.,...
You never know what will come out of the next pump.

....Cotten
PS: 5% ethanol is nothing!
Ice House beer (one of my many favorites...) is 5.5%!

[bilibobb]

Well as a nubie here Cotton, I am just realising your depth in this subject..... yes not just ethanol....
I do like your research... spot on ..... in fact over some different forums no one else mentions the other additives so it is excellent knowledge

Also I dont know of where you can get additive free/reduced fuel in the uk .... my car has 99ron ...... which is full additive stuff.... put it in my buell ... and was putting it in the blockhead .... but not know ... the fuel that was sitting is about 7% eth... plus loads of other crap .... no garage actually knows what they sell here anyway .... when asked there like ... uh..? petrol not ethanol mate ....


totally my fault for running old petrol anyway ...... probably about the same bang as turps after sitting over winter
cheers