Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

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bigbox
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Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#1

Post by bigbox »

Hi Gents,
I need some help working out the brake line and where to place the tee piece on my 59/58 framed Pan. The frame doesn't have the tab welded in place, I was going to purchase a clamp and mount the tee to the frame this way. I purchased new lines but they have been a nightmare to fit and I am starting to mangle them by removing and re-mounting them. The rear looks a little too long as well. I was going to actually have braided flexible ones made but over here they want a fortune to construct them. Any ideas and I am open to all suggestions.


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rear brake line and tee


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Frame 1958 model

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I need to purchase a repair kit for the master cylinder

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from the underside


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Where the tee and switch live I think, on a tabbed frame anyway


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Another look at my dilema

So I hope by the pictures some others on here have been through the same problem and could offer some advice. I would appreciate that very much.
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#2

Post by CaptMike »

Here's a couple of pictures of my '58 frame brake line "T". Be aware the engine case is not bolted down in my pictures!

Image
Image
bigbox
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#3

Post by bigbox »

Capt Mike;

It looks like my bracket has been removed, I hope I can find a clamp that I can make fit. By looking a lot harder at those pictures maybe I have the rear line on backwards, (as I start to glow red with embarrassment). Thanks for taking the time to help me out.
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#4

Post by CaptMike »

Sometimes it's just a puzzle until you see a picture. :wink:
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#5

Post by Panacea »

For some reason the motor company saw the need to cover the brake line with what looks like a rubber hose where it passes under the primary cover on my 64. I suppose a rock could fly up an poke a hole...naw...
Speeding Big Twin
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#6

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Paul, one reason your new lines may be causing a fitment problem is because of where you are trying to attach the rear end near the frame casting. The first photo below is yours and it looks like there is a bracket attached to that casting:

Image

Is that bracket bolted on? Normally a bracket would not be there although sometimes a bracket was fitted to police bikes if a siren was used which meant the brake line was not mounted in exactly the same fashion as a brake line on a non-police model. But I can’t tell if that bracket is a type used for police bikes.

The next two photos are of a frame made in July 1959 and the close-up of the casting shows the loop where the brake lines meet. Has your frame got that type of loop as part of the casting?

Image Image

Also, the brake line does not run straight down from that casting loop, at least not for some of the first few years of non-police models. Instead the line points inward at first and then down. The picture below is of the 1960 prototype in Bruce Palmer’s 1937–64 restoration book and will give you some idea how the line is positioned near that area:

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And instead of using a clamp have you considered making a tab like the original style and welding it to your frame?

You mentioned the possibility of a braided line although they are expensive as you have discovered. But if you decide on getting one made I’d advise checking first with licensing authorities in your state. Here in West Aust there has been some controversy regarding some braided lines (for disc brakes) on sale at some shops.

Two other things:
1. Will I assume you have a crankcase guard but have removed it for the time being while addressing the brake line problem?
2. Will I assume you will be using some sort of nylock (flexloc) nuts or castle nuts on the front engine mounting bolts when everything is sorted out?
Eric
bigbox
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#7

Post by bigbox »

Hi again and thank you for your reply, I have been out in the garage tonight and its freezing running some of the things you mentioned, before I post the pictures I will get into the history about the bike briefly. I bought it from should I say an enthusiast, He had a heap of bikes, all not finished, and a willy's jeep, unfinished, a FJ Holden under a tarp, unfinished. Whilst his intentions are good I don't believe he has a clue. Most of the nuts and bolts holding my bike together look like they come from the nut, bolt and washer jar kept on the bench in the shed. Hopefuly Colony is going to be my friend. I have put a new wiring loom onto the bike because I had no idea where he had wires running, red, blue yellow soldered together, and the clincher was the brake master cylinder was on backwards and he had made the old lines fit using a different brake, the tee was bolted onto the exhaust bracket near the oil pressure switch. So my dilemma begins, Good thing though I have a heap of parts that came with the bike!! OK PICS as these tell a thousand words. OK I previewed my post and it didn't come in the order intended. Also the rear bracket is bolted on(the one that speeding big twin mentioned) so if I remove it and use the top hole it should fix the problem and tighten the line up. And Speeding big twin, I really appreciate your input.

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You have seen this before but this is the location to weld a tab

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This is how much excess there is using the bottom hole in the bracket, I have better pics of the bracket :-)

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Another view of the bracket

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I should be able to remove the bracket and use the top hole and run the rear rubber brake line from here?? I hope. The numbers end in 58
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#8

Post by Motorcyclemike »

I took my old rear brake "Metal" line to a auto parts and got one.......That fit perfectly.....and No excessive bends to make it fit nicely....i wrapped small gas line around it 4 or 5 times and used nylon ties to hold it close to the frame and OUT OF things that might RUB thru and cause a accident !
Good Luck and RIDE Safe.
Suck-Squeese-BANG-Blow...and down the road i Goooooooooo !
MCM in Kansas
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#9

Post by 1962FLH »

Why do you have a bracket where the brake line should be bolted to your frame?
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#10

Post by cdndewey »

1962FLH wrote:Why do you have a bracket where the brake line should be bolted to your frame?

That bracket is for a Police bike with a rear wheel siren.
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#11

Post by Robert Luland »

Why not just weld the tab back on? You got more than enough room without having to remove anything. If you would like I will post the part dimensions and location measurements. Lose the bracket on the rear mount and put your line were the bolt is. Bob L
bigbox
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#12

Post by bigbox »

Thanks guys for the reply's, it is surprising that with a few comments I have unravelled the mystery. The way the previous owner had the lines routed was a complete mystery/nightmare and completely wrong. I have a clymers manual and it really doesn't go into great detail about routes. Robert, I would appreciate if you could post me the details, Would I have to remove the engine or could a good welder with a mig or tig get in there and do the job??
Lastly with the How to restore your Harley Davidson manual by Bruce Palmer, is the price of that baby correct, between 350-600 used and up to 1200 new. I am in the wrong business and thanks again for your reply's.
Robert Luland
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#13

Post by Robert Luland »

I will post the measurment tomorrow when I get time. All of Bruce's book is avilabe on line free of charge. Bob L
bigbox
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#14

Post by bigbox »

Hi again gent's;
I removed the bracket and guess what everything lines up as it should

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Bracket removed and line attached in location



looks like a bit of grinding went on to route the line maybe??

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line runs through here??


the old lines,
the previous owner MADE them fit

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The bracket and the old brake lines...


I just need to have a bracket welded on and then hopefully this part is done. I appreciate the input from you guys, lastly where can I upload the Palmers resto manual from, I can only find it on Amazon, and I am not quite prepared to mortgage the house just yet for a copy, but I am more than willing to purchase the book, and thanks again
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Re: Brake lines on 59 Pan but 58 frame, pics included

#15

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

You’re welcome, Paul. Just for comparison purposes, I’ve posted a photo below of the siren and bracket on a 1962 model:

Image

The complete number on your lower left casting is probably 47653-58 and on the right-hand casting you should find 47651-58.

On the left axle plate of your swingarm I see what appears to be a horizontal line/whatever. Is that just a mark on the swingarm or is it a reinforcement rib?
Eric
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