2 Head Bolts on removal dump oil

[old1955]

G'day,

Lately I have had to take the heads off my 65 and 55. I noticed on all
removals (3 times on the 65 and once on the 55) that oil pures out of
two head bolt positions, that is the left side front and rear, front above the
engine mounting bolt and rear above the engine mounting bolt. Now I realize
in both cases that the oil drain from the heads is just very close there somewhere.

Has anyone else had or noticed that?

Thanks
Pete

[Cotten]

Pete!

Mr. Shift once explained to me:
There's an easy way the oil gets there, and there's the hard way.

What that means is that either it creeped past the headgasket,
or the heads have been over-torqued so severely that there are cracks in the head casting.

Thorough blasting, and then a gentle oven cook should display any hairline fissures.
Any gasket concerns should come out in the wash of a simple re-grind, or minimal milling, of the gasket surfaces.
(Proper torquing technique will greatly minimize the problem in he future.)

Cracks must be assessed individually.

Good luck,

...Cotten

[old1955]

Thanks Cotten!

Well, you can tell Shifty, it's not the easy way, worst luck.

Pete

[steinauge]

T'other thing is if the head bolt holes were drilled just a bit too deep or if a little sand hole is in the wrong place it will let oil from the drainback run down into the hole and wick down the threads.Common on shovels less so on pans but does happen.The service school solution circa 75 was to clean the hole and bolt carefully and coat the bolt with aviation permatex.I just changed heads on my 61 and had that very thing happen on the new front head!

[old1955]

G'day Steinauge

Thanks for that, guess there isn't to much more you can do. Mine have never been a problem when
the bike is running, no oil coming from the head bolt only on removal.

I measured the depth of those holes this evening, and found that the ones in question are 1/16"
deeper then three of the others, right there of all places.

I turned the heads upside down, cleaned the bolt holes out, then filled the holes with gas to see if it leaked away,
they were still full when I left the shed. Gas can leak out of anything, well it seems that way sometimes.

Pete

[Panhead Ed]

Do you have any seepage of dark liquid from the spark plug hole ?
Panheads are notorious for cracking , most common is from spark plug to valve seat , DONT WORRY around here we run alot of cracked heads , as long as your not haveing a plug fowling or the seepage your good to go.
The bolts your referring to didnt leak when tight ? right ?
as someone else posted there are drilled passages very close to the bolt and some oozing will occure so when you are loosening them up to remove them you will also get the oil that is laying around that general area in the head . be on the lookout for a star pattern forming in your head gasket around the bolt hole , if you see this pattern this indicates the thread insert is comming out from over tightening ,,, no fix for this problem that I am aware of cept find some of those STD heads .

[Cotten]

Do you have any seepage of dark liquid from the spark plug hole ?
Panheads are notorious for cracking , most common is from spark plug to valve seat , DONT WORRY around here we run alot of cracked heads , as long as your not haveing a plug fowling or the seepage your good to go.

Unless air can be sucked in.

..... be on the lookout for a star pattern forming in your head gasket around the bolt hole , if you see this pattern this indicates the thread insert is comming out from over tightening ,,, no fix for this problem that I am aware of cept find some of those STD heads .

It is a common misconception that inserts are pulling out.
They are cast-in, and the head would have to disintegrate for that to occur.

The inserts stretch.

Grinding the inserts flush, and careful use of a torque wrench for reassembly, will allow the head to go directly back into duty.

....Cotten

[old1955]

G'day Panhead Ed,

Never seen seepage from the spark plug hole, but I have had bad front plug fouling (sooty not wet)
But I figured that was because my bike was a bad sumper. And plug fouling can be a symptom
of sumping which I know doesn't quite fit with the sooty plugs.Back plug is fine.

Just before I took it apart, the bike won't run at low RPMS but would run high RPMS, it sounded like a
gas blockage, but wasn't I could find any problem, so I figured it to be a broken valve spring, no, there OK
so now I think it might be hydraulic lifters braking down. Its been a bit fickle!

Thanks for your input, given me more to think about and look for.
I'm not worried about the star cast-in head bolt inserts I think all my heads you can see every one of them.
In fact you should be able to see everyone of them. Some times they are a little proud of the head
surface .003 - .005" as Cotten said from stretching. Bolts stretch too when you tighten up.

Cheers
Pete

[Panhead Ed]

Good afternoon all
All very good replys !
Cotten you seem well educated in the art of HD and getting the most outta yer stuff , Id love to ride with you sometime.
As for the star , yes you should see them in the head but its the impression in the gasket that tells the story and by all means use them up ! I subscribe to the "IF IT AINT BROKE " theory you can get more miles by re surfaceing but be carefull "torqueing" as they will strech till the break ....
Now the other thing - hows your coil ? - wires? try this but be carefull .. you can get a poke ! try pulling the spark plug connection off the fowling plug alittle to give it an extra air gap ,, do it slowly- you should have something happen within a .25 of an inch .. if all of a sudden you have 2 fireing cylinders again your coil could be the culprit.

[NightShift]

[quote="Panhead Ed"]Good afternoon all
All very good replys !
Cotten you seem well educated in the art of HD and getting the most outta yer stuff , Id love to ride with you sometime.
As for the star , yes you should see them in the head but its the impression in the gasket that tells the story and by all means use them up ! I subscribe to the "IF IT AINT BROKE " theory you can get more miles by re surfaceing but be carefull "torqueing" as they will strech till the break ....
quote]

Dear Panhead Ed,
Cotton dont ride no more, but he can type like hell.

What do broke inserts look like inside? Do they have tangs like the seats? I have never seen one and now junk heads are gold and I cant bandsaw one.

Thanks in advance,

[old1955]

G'day Ed,

This is gold for me, what you are saying. Not so long back I had a plug fouling problem
coming home, going north from Sydney, the only way I found I could get it to run was by moving the lead end
about a 1/4" from the top of the plug, as you say, I ended up keeping it there with some rolled cardboard and
wire ties. Ran real nice then, all the way home about 260 miles.

So the plug is fouling because............it isn't firing? The coil is weak?

But it runs OK for about the first 40 miles.

Pete

[Panhead Ed]

sounds like a bad coil allright it works ok untill it gets warmed up and then it looses one of the plugs . I'm getting the eye from my kid who wants on line befor he goes to school so Ill check back .. later Ed

[Panhead Ed]

You got a nice looking scoot ! Pete

[old1955]

G'day Ed, Thanks,

I got another 55 model at home, she's starting to patina now, like me. My buddy warned me
he said those red, blonde and brunette models all came wired wrong from the factory. And seems
like no ones put shop data (dope) out on the problem, because no one has been able to figure it out,
and might not be able to for some time.


Pete

[hogboy52]

I would say the plug problem is not the coil. The plug is carbon fouled. The current leaks through the carbon to ground (carbon is a conductor) and the voltage can't build high enough to jump the air gap.
Holding the plug wire away from the plug raises the voltage so high that it will jump both air gaps and not bleed off. Twinkie lights on the ends of the plug wires is one fix for bikes that load up at low speed because the voltage has to rise high enough to fire the neon.
I assume you swapped the plugs around and had the same results. You could swap the plug wires also to prove out the coil.
Carbon fouling comes from too rich a mixture. If it's just one cylinder my guess is the idle mix is turned out to compensate for an air leak to the rear.