Head bolts

[Skip]

Ok...you guys some of you got me gun shy... i am tighting up my head bolts...torque calls for up to 65 foot lbs...can this be accomplished without a clicker torque wrench adequately...using a "quarter moon" head wrench and nothing else...torqued quite well I think with it...friend says it was not enough...afraid to "pull" something out...a little advice...again...would be appricated...Thanks Skip

[1950bobber]

Skip...I NEVER use the clicker-type torque wrench...just old habit....BUT...not doing this task as often as it takes to develop the "65 lb. torque" feel one uses on non-torque wrenches...I elect to ALWAYS use a torque wrench...just NOT the clicker-type! Of course you know I'm sure, that once you've heated up the motor, another round of torque pull will be needed, right?
Jim in Seattle "1950 Bobber"

[Skip]

Thanks...Yes about the re-torque...I just read horror stories about pulling out the inserts...and as a rule I usually end up overtightening everything...what are the ramifactions of not getting to 65...so you advise the old torsion wrench??? Thanks again Skip

[56panman]

Skip... If at all possible use a torque wrench. With any OHV engine the head must be bolted to the cyclinder with equal pressure to all head bolts to assure proper valve train freedom of movement. On a flathead motor the use of a torque wrench is not as important. Its not so much the 65 lbs. torque to hold it down as it is the 65 lbs. "equally distributed" torque to be sure its seated flat to the cyclinder.

[fourthgear]

Sorry gentlemen ,but I have never used a torque wrench on any head bolt on a HD and have never pulled a insert or had a blown head gasket from them being too loose. You can call me old time , old school or just a barn yard mechanic .
The whole thing about torque wrenches is ( and I don't care which type you use ) is that with out specialized tools to recalibrate them on your bench ,you have no idea if and how accurate they really are . Yes I use the clicker type on a lot of stuff on the HDs ,but those head bolts are hard to get at and any thing you use to extend or change the angle , you are changing the torque setting ,period. You can argue all ya want, but its a fact . You can say it s not much ,but do you really know how much and using diff. things to get angles for diff. bolts to get at them , you can see it will have a diff. out come
It is a inherit design with the older HDs , the inserts will move from expansion and contraction over time and guess which way they will move . I just do it by feel as always , its not for everyone ,but it sure has worked for me for over thirty years.
I jump on checking tightness on head and base bolts as soon as I shut the motor down for the first time , all the others are secondary. Cris Cross pattern as always.

[1950bobber]

Regarding TIGHTENING HEAD BOLTS with a torque wrench.....I AGREE WITH 56panman....

"Its not so much the 65 lbs. torque to hold it down as it is the 65 lbs. "equally distributed" torque to be sure its seated flat to the cyclinder".

Fourthgear.......
I don't take any issue with anyone who has the "65 pound pull" touch...but Skip is asking an opinion here, and if you really believe a torque wrench loses accuracy with attachments or the need for recalibration...how do you explain your accuracy if all you have is an educated feel?
I'm not criticizing you here....but I believe,. contrary to your experience, that you will get much closer to the 65 lb. requirement for start-up and will avoid an overtorqued head on that first round of tightening...actually, 56Panman said it best...it's consistency of tightening that matters most using the torque wrench since the next round of tightening really is the finishing touch to the process.
I'm from the old school when it comes to what the book requires (unless it is generally acceptable practice to do otherwise!) I'm an ex-Army helicopter pilot...if I EVER saw one of my crew chiefs re-installing the "Jesus nut" without the proper tools, namely a torque wrench, he'd be jacked up where he'd never make that mistake again!!!!
I maintain...if you DO NOT have the magic fingers to feel the amount of torque it takes to properly tighten head bolts...play it safe and use the tools it calls for.

Jim in Seattle "1950 Bobber"

[Pantony]

1950 Bobber; I echo your comments. OK lets say fourthgears opinions on the inacuracys of each and every torque wrench on the planet are correct. Lets say they in the U. S. they are all off 10%, (throw all the click types away, this is the old bend-bar type) thats a lot of error and would never make it at work where they are calibraited but lets say Skip has one that is off by that much, he has to torque headbolts with a halfmoon crows foot that has a 1 1/2" offset that will absorb what, 1-2ft/lbs? Ok 65-10%(6.5ft/lbs)= 58 1/2ft/lbs minus the average error of 1 to 2ft/lbs(which is 1.5ft/lbs for the crows foot) now we have 57ft/lbs. But 57ft/lbs evenly (which is if he uses the crows foot on all 5 bolts). I would put my money on Skip torqueing his heads that way all week long as compared to Fourthgears "I can really FEEL 65ft/lbs" measurement. On an openwheel race car, even on the smallest of classes there is a center-nut pin-drive arrangement to hold the wheel on. I would never trust anyone putting a pipe on a breaker-bar and tell me that he has it "around 150ft/lbs" and send a driver out on a track where he has to trust his life to that measurement while pulling 3-4 lateral g-forces. Yes thats an extreme case compared to Skips headbolts. Skip go to the nearest parts store and pick up an old-style bending bar torque wrench. It won't cost nearly as much as a click type and will last a long time. The one I have in my tool box at home my dad bought when I was 16. He passed away in 1977. I took it to work to check it and it had .003% negative error, Closer than I could ever "FEEL".

[panheadken]

i can not imagine thinking i could hit 65 on the nose, when i was twenty five i could drive a golf ball 250, now at 56 swing feels the same but the ball is out to 220

[rigid60]

Making sure your headbolts are all torqued to the same value is what's important here. Even the el cheapo torque wrench, even if it's off, will accomplish that.

[Cotten]

I like the really really cheap torsion wrenches because they have a double 1/2" drive that goes both up and down, which is critical for getting an obstruction wrench extension onto head&cyl fasteners while in the chassis.

....Cotten
PS: I have over a half-dozen torque wrenches but no clickers...(except maybe that Sunnen thing with a 'breaking elbow'.)

[fourthgear]

I said it wasn't for everyone and I also did not say a thing about getting any number of ft/lbs. close or otherwise .With any attachment you are extending the focal point of said instrument you are using , sure that torque wrench is going to be close dead on top of the fastener but , with out absolutely knowing what and how much if it changes the set point , you are guessing , pure and simple .
As far as comparing a vintage HD to a twenty million + dollar aircraft is just crazy . I'll bet that the fasteners that you torque down aren't hot or have cooling fins ,distributors,exhaust pipes or another head in the way to get at them . I will also bet that if you are in the shit and with a real possibility of dying of terminal lead poisoning you won't give a rats behind about weather the mechanic has the proper tools to fix said damaged aircraft to get you out of harms way.
I have seen so many tools bind on these head bolts and give false readings that I trust my feel and have yet to see any attachment work properly to trust them. hell a open end wrench has so much bind and flex in there I don't know how anyone can use one attached to a torque wrench.
Its just the way I was taught and as said ,not for ever one and if you trust your method , go for it . Mine works for me and the proof are still riding around including my own .
Opinions are what makes this sight so cool , you have diff. ones and you get to chose the one or ones that you feel will work for you . No offense given or taken ,gentlemen.

[Panacea]

On my first pan rebuild I remember being told by other pan owners to just use a horseshoe wrench, criss cross patern, as tight as you can get em by hand. Since, I've found it much easier to use the beam tourque wrench with my home made adapters. Don't have to pull my fingers off that way. Everybody has there own idea, and I'm always open to new ones! Mike

[Cotten]

fourthgear wrote:

"With any attachment you are extending the focal point of said instrument you are using..."

Not necessarily!

Adapters attached to the torquewrench to make a 90 degree angle do not change the applied torque.
If an adapter makes an angle that lengthens a wrench, it multiplies the reading; if the adapter shortens the distance from your hand to the fastener, it divides the reading.
So even though an obstruction wrench makes a curve, sticking it on a torquewrench will not appreciably change the result, as long as the angle from your hand... to the head of the torquewrench.... to the fastener.... is a right angle.

...Cotten

[fourthgear]

I think the word I was looking for is fulcrum point or something like that , I'm not a good speller at all . I remember trying to use a swivel ( looks like a universal joint )attachment on a torque wrench and man that was not a good choice , it bound up a lot , could be I have a bad one or it was too worn out , who knows .
I think its important to get at the head & base bolts as fast as you can while motor is still at its peek temp. after the first shut down, thats why I use a box end wrench , its speedy.
I wounder what type of tooling the factory used back then , did they bolt the head to the cyl. first and then bolt the assem. to the case ? Just curious. Any one know ?

[Rich]

Try this calculator for reference....
Obviously the 'Extended' length in the diagram refers to a straight line between the fixing being tightened and the handle center.