Kicker gear, 14 or 16 tooth

[zman]

Description: An old timer suggested changing the kicker gear to spin up the motor faster

My '50 Pan usually takes 20-30 kicks to start. An old timer suggested changing the kicker gear to spin up the motor faster. It sounds reasonable, would I go with the 14 tooth or the 16 tooth. Or does this make no difference in starting?

[jarhead]

I believe the 16 tooth is for a 67-79 .

[panfreak]

I would be more inclined to figure out why it takes that many kicks, there's gotta be another problem.

[Panacea]

Zman, try two kicks with the choke on and the key off, turn on the switch, kick again and it should at least pop if not start. if it doesn't, start checking,1 are the plugs bone dry?(need more choke) 2 is the spark white? could be bad plugs or coil or wires. Or if you don't get a pop the timing could be late. There is a reason, how is the compression? Good luck with it, there is a lot of good ideas here. Mike

[zman]

I'll try that starting routine and check if I get a white spark. Right now I can get her to start with 4 prime kicks while twisting the throtle about 1/4 turn and then with ignition on, kick her thru. The problem which I should of stated earlier was that she takes 20 - 30 kicks (Depending upon how many people are watching - the more people, the more kicks it takes.) when she's warm or hot. The parts that I have changed in the last 2 summers are: battery, plugs and wires, coil, I put an electronic distributor on. I'm on my second carb. I have re-wired her recently. I have the timing dead on. And I sealed up the manifold good. I did a compression check, and I don't remember the numbers but I do remember that they were not close to each other.

[Cotten]

Zman!

Even though you "sealed up the manifold good", a pressuretest may still shine light upon your starting problems.
Especially if you used a "sealer"!
Don't forget the pan cover screw over each intake port.
Meanwhile, the 16 tooth kicker gear was used from '36 through '58, and then again from '67 until modern times. The middle years used the 14 tooth gear.

...Cotten

[zman]

Guys, I tried the two kick routine with no results. Probably because my carb has an enricher not a true choke. The spark was white from both plug wires though. I did another compression check (with throttle open), and with a warm engine I got 90psi front and 85psi rear. All things considered I assume that that is reasonable. I didn't pressure test the manifold though. Does anyone know of a product available that is set up to pressure test an S&S manifold? And which kicker gear would be to my advantage?

[Cotten]

Zman asked:

Does anyone know of a product available that is set up to pressure test an S&S manifold?

Yep.
A big cork.
I'll bet you can put a hole in it yourself.
Try finding a local winemaking shop, if your neighborhood hardware stores are little more than qwickymarts.
Maybe even a rubber freezeplug, or even just a wood plate with a nipple threaded into it...Hell, a wad of aluminum foil with a Bic pen crammed through it should work.

A constant regulated air supply, and careful observance are the critical factors.

...Cotten

[ArizonaMike]

Hi Zman

Are you getting enough gas in the carb? I have to twist my throttle 20-25 times before kicking in order to get enough gas into my butterfly Kehin. Sometimes it's just your particular motor and carb combination.

Pgh Mike

[Cotten]

Pgh Mike!

Twenty squirts of an accelerator pump is enough raw gas to wash down the lube from the cylinder walls.

...Cotten

[zman]

Had a good ride today. After every stop when attempting to crank her up I first prime kicked her 3 times with a twist of the throttle each kick, then started her. It worked all day. I've read elseware that S&S carbs can flood easily, so before I didn't give any (or little) throttle to a hot engine. Goes to show that each bike is unique in its own way. Panheads-gotta love em. Thanks for the input guys.

[ArizonaMike]

Hi Cotten,

What can you suggest to start my butterfly Kehin '62 without the 20-25 throttle twists before kicking? I forgot to add that the 20-25 twists are only for the first start of the day; when hot one twist is enough.

Mike

[57pan]

Mike in Pgh,

You absolutely HAVE to pressure test your manifold before trying to diagnose any starting problems.
One thing you might want to check though... when you twist the throttle 20-30 times are you actually squirting fuel? Take the air cleaner cover off and look down the throat of the carb when you twist it. Maybe there's a problem with the accel. pump diaphram or the inlet port to the accel. reservoir is plugged. (I ruined an accel. pump diaphram one time when I cleaned my carb with brake cleaner).

[ArizonaMike]

57 Pan,

Thanks for the help. I tried starting mine with only two twists, and it did start up, with a little working of the throttle and choke for a few seconds until the idle became smoother. Guess I really didn't need the twenty twists after all.

Mike in Pgh

[Hudson51]

I'm having the same hard start issues with a 49 Panhead with a linkert M74. I'm using the o ring manifold. Is there a way to test if that's leaking air/pressure test it? It used to start on three kicks cold and now it takes a blast of ether. The timing is right and the points are right and I am considering a 16 tooth gear.