not wanting to start cold

[doug_heisel]

Well here we go again. I've gotten several good rides in this winter. But my 52 pan has been very hard to start. kicking back and just in general being stuborn. the last several times I've gone out to start her she kicks back very hard and is blowing out the carb (RIGHT NOW THE CV) and fires just once per kick. now she refuses to do anything but kick me. I checked the timing its nuts on.. plugs are clean.. points are clean.. battery is charged... I was going to change over to the s&s this month (would that help) I about at my wits end (again) any ideas.

[Cotten]

Doug!

Perhaps your points gap has closed up a bit,
but most likely its just another case of manifold leak disease.

....Cotten

[Dave_R]

Hi Doug,

I too am running a newer CV. It has an "enrichener" which is really not a choke.

When it's cold, I have to twist the throttle a few times to let the accelerator pump squirt fuel.

Then about 3 to 5 kicks with the throttle wide open and key off to try to get the puddle of fuel into the cyl's.

Then, Key on, throttle closed or very slightly open, kick away. If it coughs out the carb or kicks back, there goes your charge, so repeat above. If many kicks yield not even a puff, then I let it sit for 5 min as it may be flooded.

[Cotten]

Hi Doug,

I too am running a newer CV. It has an "enrichener" which is really not a choke.

When it's cold, I have to twist the throttle a few times to let the accelerator pump squirt fuel.

Then about 3 to 5 kicks with the throttle wide open and key off to try to get the puddle of fuel into the cyl's.

Then, Key on, throttle closed or very slightly open, kick away. If it coughs out the carb or kicks back, there goes your charge, so repeat above. If many kicks yield not even a puff, then I let it sit for 5 min as it may be flooded.

Dave!

Do I understand your modern carburetor has an enrichener, yet you must still squirt raw fuel to hope it will start?

....Cotten

[caschnd1]

Cotton,

The CV accelerator pump makes is easy to get that first charge of fuel into the intake and ultimately the cylinder. My starting ritual is different then Dave's. On the coldest days (20's or 30's) I'll give the throttle three twists. I skip the prime kicks since there is no need to "pull" fuel from the carb bowl (the accelerator pump already provided it). I do slowly move the motor to the compression stroke on the front cylinder before giving it the first kick so this serves as a half-hearted prime I guess. The bike will almost always start on the first kick. During the summer or when the motor is hot no throttle twist is required. Just key on and kick.

The enricher circuit only starts "working" once the motor has started and there is a steady flow of air through the throat of the carb.

-Craig

[Cotten]

Craig!

I'm just trying to understand modern carbs...

Let me get this straight: you must use the accelerator pump to start the machine, and the enrichener won't work until its running?

....Cotten

[caschnd1]

Well, I don't know if you have to use the accelerator pump, but it sures makes starting easy. Twist and kick. The enricher will provide some amount of help while just kicking, but it really needs that steady flow of air through the carb to do it's job. Again, I only use the accelerator pump on the cold days when the motor is cold from sitting over night. In the summer and once the motor is hot no throttle twist is required.

You call the CV a modern carb, and compared to a Linkert it is ... but it's design is 30 years old at least. Not exactly cutting edge technology.

-Craig

[john HD]

beg to differ only slightly.

the only time an enrichner works is when the throttle is completely closed. it relies on vaccum created with the butterfly closed.

it is alot like starting an engine with fuel injection. leave the throttle closed when cranking or kicking.

try 3 or 4 prime kicks with the enrichner on, throttle closed. then give it a hot kick.

again, any vaccum leak completely screws up a cv when cold. i had a cv on my pan for years with no troubles and was a one kicker hot or cold. (a lot like a linkert!)

john

[DuoGlide62]

reminder,... gas fouled plugs ' look ' clean.

[Panhead Ed]

Doug this thread must come up at least once a week , please check for vacume leaks , they are simple machines with easy to follow procedures for starting "no computer control modules to screw things up" ...If your not able to check for vacume find a buddy who can or move to the top of the hill and use gravity ! sorry but Im alittle short on patients today.

[nmaineron]

I wouldn't rule out our modern choice of fuels as being a culprit to hard cold weather starting especially if you don't run the bike frequently.

[Panacea]

I also used a Kehin CV on my 51. I thought it was pretty reliable though at times hot starts could be difficult. http://www.johnsmotorcycleparts.com/kei ... images.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Igosplut]

Mine has a E on it and I've never used the enrichener ever. Just dry kick it four times with the throttle sightly open after wicking it once. Switch on, then kick with no throttle. Easier to flood it than anything. But in my experience you have to find your own sequence, no two are the same.

[Huck]

Snorting back through the carb and kicking back on the stick got the same freckles but are a little different. I don’t think changing the carb is going to help unless you accidently find a vacuum leak. Manual or Auto timer? If it’s bucking hard enough to hurt your feelings I say timing is advanced. Weights stuck if its auto advance? Wrong timing mark? I run a mag and am amazed at the fact you can swing it 45-50 degrees and the bike still runs…Hot, it’ll start retarded or advanced it don’t care. Cold if not retarded it will make you grunt and utter bad words not to mention the looking foolish part. 

I have not winced nor cried aloud

Bullshit! I have, that kicker can bite like a snapping turtle.

[Hog54]

Funny how some of you guys talk about flooding.I have a keihen carb off an 80 lowrider on my bike and using a andrews accelerator pump for more squirt.I usually give it about 10-15 squirts before I start kicking and always starts around the 3rd kick.I actually find it hard to flood my bike.