58 FLH wont start

[jank1331]

So here we go again. I recently replaced my Jims hydraulic lifters with the solid lifter inserts due to a collapsing front exhaust lifter. I took off the cam cover to check what cam I had (Andrews A) because I wasn't sure and I want to inspect it. Put the cam cover back on and adjusted the push rods (aluminum Jims). I didn't touch the magneto or carb. I cannot get it to start. No combination has worked. I've tried the Pushrods tight and the pushrods with just slight drag.nothing. I've tried adjusting them off of 35 BTDC and at the bottom rotation of each lobe, always adjusting opposites. Nothing. It gave me a pop from the carb after about 80 kicks. Any ideas?

[oldbob]

Sounds like ignition timing is off or pinion and cam gear could be off by one tooth. Check Knowledge Base on how to time a Panhead is what I would recommended.

Bob

[58flh]

Jank whats-up!-----try this, raise the rear wheel off the ground an inch, turn the wheel until the line on flywheel is centered in hole--& front pushrod valve closed-do this in 2nd. gear, if you overshoot do not reverse the order just cycle it again with plugs out for easy turning of motor.When you are on comp.-stroke,valve closed--pop the dist. cap off. Now take a testlight or voltmeter & hook-up to the points--now manually advance the shaft with the pointscam on it! do not move the mountingplate ,just the points until the light goes on! tighten it all up & recheck, you might have to do this 2,3,4 times until you get it right. It sounds more difficult or confusing until you do it! You do it once & when it comes time for new points the 2nd time is brainless! By using the rear wheel to rotate motor you are taking-up all the gearlash & chain slack in both primary & rear. This is giving you a true T.D.C. I have a 58flh & it starts 1-kick everytime, when its hot say a quick shutdown for a pack of smokes ,then fire it up again, all I have to do is ignition on & 1-kick & instant idle,if I was to hit the throtle once, it would be about 10 kicks,who the hell wants to do that!I dont know what type of carb. you are running, but run a reworked BENDIX & switch-up once in awhile with my LINKert! I set my points at .022 & my bosh-platinums at a loose 28-30 max. I set timing as described above, In the A.M. when its time to leave for work my starting ritual is like this (2 twists on the wick, 2dry-fires to get fuel down to the cyl., turn on ignition & 1-kick & we are off!-thats it)! Hope this helps you, like I said I dont know your motor setr-up! As for me & any of my customers that are running points this method has been foolproof! Even Sporters start with 1-kick!( well Jank Good-Luck & get that bike up & going where it belongs) 58flh ---ALSO there are alot of very exp. brothers on this site listen to them they have been through it all! You will find that any problems you may encounter, a100 others already have a remedy! ALL THE BEST 58FLH

[jank1331]

Thanks for the reply. I dont see how I could have changed the timing by just re-installing the pushrods. I am running a morris magneto and I did check it (3 times) during this whole process to make sure that it is timed. Ive also pressure checked the mannifold, no leaks. I will just have to start the process over again ( about the 5th time).
Steve

[Bosheff]

If yer runnin a mag check for a good spark. Mags have a way of goin from good to bad, and when they do, yer usually lookin at everything but the mag....bosheff

[Pomike]

You didn't say if it fires. That A camshaft is not helpful.
Mike

[jank1331]

You didn't say if it fires. That A camshaft is not helpful.
Mike

Mike,
The mag does fire, i took it out to check. As far as the "A cam is not helpful", do you mean its not a good cam to have?

[jdpan]

Perhaps you should read through the second page of this thread,,, again.
http://www.hydra-glide.com/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems that link is dead, anyway, its the thread started by you about noisey lifters and it touches on the A grind subject.

[steve_wood]

Just for giggles, how about a compression check?

Also, is there any gas in the cylinders after you've kicked a few?

[58flh]

Hey Jank--make sure your valves are in order, & like Bosheff said your problem is probably in the MAG. Take out a plug & spin that thing- if you dont get aq nice crisp snap that can be heard in the garage, your MAG. is probably in need for a tune-up! Remember alot of guys with this set-up were always jumpin-em to start on the race end of the spectrum. If I remember I had a customer who had a MAG. on aq shovel--kickstart olny & he ran it everyday, then comes a time for preventive maintainance--I changed the points ,cond. in the MAG. gap was at .015 ,checked the timing the way I had explained to you earlier & its back to a 2kick bike daily driven! Once you settle that check out your cam ,you are getting proper-lift & its in time using factory marks,& lifters checkout good,you might want to double check it with a degree wheel, one for a 8 cyl. chevy works great---after all there is no difference in the crankshaft rotation ,its still 720 degrees! I have found that some cams if set dot to dot will run no problems, but that same cam degreed it might be olny 1 or 2,3 teeth on the cam gear,you dont know till its checked! Once it was done the bike started easier & 1/4 mile times were far better. My cam is done that way & anytime I do that kind of work for a customer its just second nature,& Ill tell you how surprised you will be when you do a few , at howw far-off the timing dot really is! In the last few years Ill admit certain companys have tweeked thier cam-grinds & I find them to be pretty good-hell if you degree it correctly & come up 1 tooth off everytime ,thats a great grind!!! Im not saying dot to dot is wrong, but If you can squeeze every ounce of power out of your investment-why not? Im just funny that way & this site is the best for what we do!( good-Luck & get that bad-ass bike in the breeze) 58flh

[jank1331]

58flh,
Thanks for the input. I did have the cam cover off so maybe the cam gear skipped a tooth and I didnt know it. Its just odd that the only thing I did was change out the lifters. I recently put the mag in, 300 miles or so and it would kick and run great. I tested it off the bike and on it and it is getting a good spark. I think I will have to look at the cam marks again just to make sure, Im obviously missing somthing.

Thanks,
Steve

[RUBONE]

Just be aware that the cam timing marks will line up when the mag is 180 out too! Did you take the cam out to inspect it and put it back in, or just inspect in place?
Robbie

[kevock1950]

Dont make any assumptions of "should be fine"...something is amiss, so it would be best to go through your mag timing sequence once again.

Following mag timing instructions from Morris Mags for a 74E magneto - pull rear plug, kick thru motor until your thumb pops off the spark plug hole. Roll motor over until advance mark is centered in window. Install mag wth the skinny lobe just about to break the points open. You're about static timed at that point.

I cant speak to the Andrews A being the source of the problem, but I do know that even though bike ran BEFORE I fixed something, if I have a no start condition after, its best to go through everything...beginning with points gap and timing.

Start with your points gap and condensor and connections...be sure everything is in good order and then set your timing. Something as stupid as the points closed or a bad condensor could cause your condition. Dont simply assume the mag is "bad" or that it needs to be re-magnetized.

[jank1331]

When I replaced the lifters and pulled of the cam cover, the mag was never removed. After I started trouble shooting, I pulled the mag head of, checked the points/gap and checked to see if I was getting spark then re-timed it. I have done this process with the mag about three times. This leads me to believe that I threw the cam off somehow. I did slowly turn the motor over (without plugs) when I installed the lifters with the cam cover off, thats why im leaning towards the cam as a problem. I have the next few days off so I will start over with trouble shooting. Thanks for the advice.

Steve